Karen Lightman 

Ladies and gentlemen please welcome to the stage our blending new tech and aging infrastructure and smart cities panel

 
Tyler Suiters 

Good afternoon and welcome to ces 2020. If you haven't received an official welcome yet you are at the world's largest, the world's most influential technology event. I'm Tyler suitors with the consumer Technology Association. We are the owner and producer of CES. We are thrilled you're here. And glad you're joining us for the Smart Cities panel. Technology is changing our lives for the better. It is making us healthier, smarter, more connected. Our wellness is improving our sense of security is improving our connectivity with one another and our families and information is at a higher level than it's ever been. And Smart Cities are remarkable manifestation of that what is today and what is to come in the future. So a great conversation today about the promise that technology holds but also Some of the realities of the infrastructure we have today and the challenges we need to overcome. I'd like to welcome my fellow panelists today starting immediately on my left with George carry honest who was with Panasonic city now he is the executive director George welcome. One over is Karen Lightman, the executive director of Metro 21, the Smart Cities Institute with Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh. Karen, great to have you with us. Thank you. And my fellow washington dc resident Suzanne and Bertha leads a calm the connected city infrastructure and automated vehicles practice. Suzanne, wonderful to have you with us as well. Thank you. So you all have all of our BIOS at your fingertips and I know you can reference them easily so we're gonna we're gonna let you read that if you want to. You'll notice one chair that was expected is not here. Mayor Barnett with us Conference of Mayors had a very late change of schedule and is unable to join us. Let's begin Suzanne with you. First, please. less about your bio more about your passion for smart cities and and how your career reflects that passion.

 
Suzanne Murtha 

Great I do I do love passion and I, my background is actually in connected and automated technology. So specifically with connected vehicles and automated vehicles. So we see transportation is a huge part of a connected city. A calm sees that most of the world's population will be in cities in the near term. So we are super excited to be supporting the automated bus Consortium, which is one of our new efforts. And you can see that our automated bus consortium com, where we have pulled the funds of our 13 of our transit agency clients. And we're working all together to put out an RFP for between 75 and 100 full size transit buses, which we see automated transit buses, which we see as a huge part of a smart city, part of a connected infrastructure that involves electrification, and involves cleaner air and more safe movement and increased mobility.

 
Tyler Suiters 

Thank you up. Karen. You see Carnegie Mellon University you immediately think AI self driving vehicles right? Emerging Technology labs. So it's obvious why you're passionate about it. But I think you could delve a little more deeply into and how you started in smart cities.

 
Karen Lightman 

Well, um, first of all, it's an honor to be here on the stage. I've been coming to CES for a really long time. But I kind of joke, this is the first time I got invited. So it's great to be here. And so smart cities at Carnegie Mellon, and we take a very co creative, collaborative approach. Yes, we are known for our technology and AI and robotics, but we really focus on problem solving. So we take the technology developed at Carnegie Mellon and we research development, develop and deploy with an accent on that last D. In collaboration with a municipality, in particular, the city of Pittsburgh and the county of Allegheny, we have mo use with them. We have a very, you know, a person to person connection with the municipality, and we solve real world problems. So in Pittsburgh, we're very hilly, if you don't know and we had the weather at one of the wet weather springs. And so recently it was landslides. So we're using artificial intelligence as a way of predicting the likelihood of landslides so that investments can be made in infrastructure, kind of like prelude to what we're going to talk about. And and so that's the kind of stuff we do. So sure, it's AI and technology, but we really focus on what's the problem we're looking to solve.

 
Tyler Suiters 

Excellent. George, for those who follow Panasonic. First of all, this is a company a global brand that has been at CES every year since the start. So let me begin by saying thank you for all of that. But Panasonic is involving just so much more so much about our connected not just internet of things, but the intelligence of things as well.

 
George Karayannis 

So at Panasonic, we focus in terms of smart cities on serving cities, utilities, real estate developers and transit agencies, really focused on the intersection of energy and mobility for those markets. In terms of what brought me to Panasonic and to discuss Page is my passion for complex systems, emerging technologies, mission critical systems, community resiliency, energy independence, these metal level national priorities that we have to solve at City scale.

 
Tyler Suiters 

Well, let's begin right there. And George wants you to hold, hold the spotlight for a moment. Let's talk about the present where we are today. The title says it ourselves aging infrastructure, not just infrastructure itself, aging infrastructure, what is our state of play today? What are the opportunities? And also what are the challenges? where's where's our balance in your opinion? So from our perspective,

 
George Karayannis 

you know, every city I talked to, none of them have money, right? And they all right, and so they all have infrastructure that generally needs to be upgraded or and or replaced. And so that really drives an acute need for public private partnerships. Right? There's just no you know, it has to take all of us working together in a fundamentally different way, right? public private partnerships are not lowest first cost procurements from cities. And they're not golden pots of gold at the end of the rainbow for the vendor, right? This takes a different focus to really address the very real need in in upgrading our infrastructure, mobility, energy, again, community resiliency across the country.

 
Tyler Suiters 

Karen, can you use Pittsburgh as a good example of where we are on infrastructure and this is certainly an older industrial East Coast City that has room forever, right.

 
Karen Lightman 

And and I think actually, we were bankrupt for almost 20 years, right. So think about that. 16 years of a bankrupt city that lost half its population. The only thing that it hadn't it's, it's, it's a, whatever bag of tricks was it it lost half of its population, so half of the people were using its infrastructure. Right now we're growing or we're stable And and so what do you do with that? Right? So now I work really closely with the Department of it's called mobility and infrastructure domey. And I kind of joke that it's still my, because that infrastructure had been neglected for almost 20 years. And now they want to do smart in, you know, smart and connected communities. But they don't the roads are crumbling. The bridges are crumbling, we have this really serious issue with landslides. There's 40 active landslides in the Pittsburgh region. So there are some very basic things that so in Pittsburgh is a great example of we are considered a smart city. And yeah, and we have some of the the most bridges, I think outside of Venice, I think, and, and yet we have some basic things that need to be invested in and it's both that physical as well as the digital infrastructure. So let's just say there's a lot of opportunities and

 
Tyler Suiters 

same question uses them with the opportunities available, you know, on a more national scale here,

 
Suzanne Murtha 

so on a more national scale, one of the biggest opportunities that a cop sees as we go to deploy smart cities across the country is the potential for city leadership to come together and form smart city departments. So the one of the fundamental problems with deploying any sort of technology or solutions in a city that we find is that there's an education department. There's a water department, there is a sanitation department and a transportation department. And they all have separate funding streams. And they all have favorite contractors, and they have all their own ways of collecting data and doing everything that they do individually. And they don't have a way of sort of pulling all that. So we see less, where cities don't have money. They don't. But the bigger problem to overcome and the opportunity that we see is the opportunity for all those different agencies in a city to come together and find a way to fund something broad across all of them that can be impactful across all the different groups and not just the transportation department at the sanitation department. So this is what We're looking forward to

 
George Karayannis 

right. And I would say that you know, the most impactful Smart City solutions. And the reason that issue is so pressing is because effective Smart City solutions cut horizontally across the It forces that collaboration, and not just within the city. But within multiple stakeholders, the transit agency, the utility, the university's

 
Karen Lightman 

right in many ways I describe it as a game of whack of mole, whack a mole, rather, is that you, you've hit one problem, you're like, Oh, my God, we've solved traffic and all these other problems come up. Right. And so we look at it holistically as a system of systems. And so that's why the work that we do in Smart Cities at Carnegie Mellon is really thinking of, you know, transportation, alongside issues of infrastructure alongside climate change, alongside water and sewer alongside and then citizen engagement is that thread that runs through all of it, because at the end of the day, it's all about the people that live in those cities, right.

 
Tyler Suiters 

So we found ourselves in a bit of a SWAT and analysis, right? I think we've we've handled weaknesses and threats pretty well. Let's talk about some of the positives now with the present state. What are the strengths of our current infrastructure? And how are they leading to opportunities for for what lies ahead, Suzanne, we start with you.

 
Suzanne Murtha 

One opportunity that I think is fantastic is the potential for increased funding through uses charge. Really think that, for example, in New York City's road use charge or any other usage charge, any kind of charging that connects the user directly to the service, we think is a great opportunity. You know, quite often in public sector, we disconnect payment from a service with the use of a service and so it devalues our infrastructure and and the use of our infrastructure and the services we provide. So we think a great opportunity going forward is potentially reduce charge and with the advancement of technologies that can support that like connected vehicles and mobile payment systems. It's really a fantastic opportunity in the coming decades to connect you There's two services and perhaps increase funding. George, your perspective on strengths and you've been strong so far in the public private partnership area, I assume that's where you want to dive into it? Well,

 
George Karayannis 

what we're also seeing is very strong leadership and public policy, right? Where's the carbon footprint, it's coming from the built environment and mobility. And in the built environment, we're seeing very, very positive leadership in net zero buildings. And even just basic reporting, which builds awareness, because this is not a this is a destination, not a journey, right? We're talking about decades and decades of investment over over the next many decades. And so we see very supportive public policies in terms of the built environment, in terms of the automotive OEMs and, and transitioning to connected mobility. So over the past many years, cities all had a different priority, public safety, education, economic development, and they have kind of coalesced around mobility and social equity, right as their top two concerns and we're seeing very strong leadership to address those. And we're seeing the vendors actually step in. If you look at somebody like the city of San Jose, really deploying a very innovative 5g policy, that is also kicking off $30 million, almost in digital divide funding, that is really building the infrastructure in a very thoughtful way that is helping to solve the city's one of the city's most pressing problems, which is social equity.

 
Karen Lightman 

Yeah, I think that equity piece is really critical. And I think when we think of, you know, pay for use, we need to make sure that it's not done in a regressive way. Right, so that people who need to get to work because they don't have an alternative. They You know, there's there's thoughtful policy making being put into that and designed to that. So one of the projects that we're looking is creating almost an Airbnb for the curb. So I mean, right now the curb is, I mean, I don't know about you, but like, I love food trucks, but there's something about a food truck taking up a city block and just parking and, you know, kind of there needs to be thoughtful use of food trucks, food cars, we have these food cars at Carnegie Mellon. Like there's Uber lift, there's gotta be thought put into the use of the curb so that traffic can flow, that pedestrians are safe. And that people are actually paying for their time and they're using that to serve. And so we have the technology to do that. So I think that's I'm an employee

 
Suzanne Murtha 

and we have deployed that in Los Angeles is called flex curbs, whereas lexico we developed some of that technology too. So I completely agree with you. And the other great thing about payment and services to is the ability to reimburse some of the agencies which operate in the red you know, come up with some equitable ways to do that. For example, if we charge for use on a road, we can reimburse transit agencies which are typically operate 70% in the writer 70% Funded by federal federal funding so we can offset some of that by use. And another really interesting solution, which also goes to equity is in road charging. So we're looking at in vehicle in road charging for electric vehicles, especially in cities where they can't plug in and users can't plug in vehicles into a into a house. They can't run the car about so there's another use for the curb we can charge for the curb for charging and also charged for in ground inductive charging on the road.

 
Karen Lightman 

And that also brings up the really important issue that as we become more electrified, which I'm all for the revenue that a lot of states are getting for department of transportation projects, typically comes from gas tax. Well guess what if we're electrified there is no gas tax. So how are we going to fill that gap? We're already seeing some of those impacts. So and then also like emissions, right? So we get money from a missions and you have to get your monthly your monthly, your annual sticker, annual tax, you know, gas tax. revenue, like these are huge. These are hundreds of millions of dollars that because of electrification are going to be disappearing. So we've got to be thoughtful about the policies. That's right. And an example of that. And I'm going to say this in a kind of quippy way that I've thought about. So we saw when Obama came, came in one of his first initiatives was the double cafe regulations, right, double the amount of requirements have to be fuel efficient, and for the manufacturers. So when we double fuel efficiency, we necessarily have the gas tax. Yeah. So and we're trying to solve one problem and we sort of, you know, the unintended that it's another game of wackamole involve unintended consequence.

 
George Karayannis 

and if we talk about curbside management and aging infrastructure, the oldest infrastructure in the country is the public right of way. Right. The curve is a subset of the public right of way, the public right of way from my perspective is the most poorly managed, least properly valued asset a city has And by getting that strategy right up front, smart street lighting, environmental sensing connected mobility, electrification, Uber, you know, renting the curbside, Airbnb, curbside, all of that is best solved for when those bright of way stakeholders come together and define a strategy because it five G. It's called small cell. Right? Right, you could end up with two small cells per vendor, per block, no.

 
George Karayannis 

So where's that going? It's going in the public right of way. And what is the community aesthetic? What is the strategy?

 
Karen Lightman 

Right? So and who's paying for it? And just in the, you know, like that whole issue of equity, right? Is it just going to be in these really highly densified neighborhoods where they can afford it, because the carriers want to get reimbursed? So they're just going to the rich neighborhoods like, Is that fair? Right. So I think those are those kinds of infrastructure questions that we need to have maybe I don't know. anyone's talk. Did you hear the the keynote from Qualcomm today? It's fascinating to hear what their, you know, thoughts on that. But I think there it's there's some very basic issues that we need to get get to. and digital infrastructure is just as important as that physical insurance. And

 
Tyler Suiters 

George, you pointed out very early the importance of policy and this whole discussion and we'll get to that. Let's stay on the The more, the more technological side, the side of innovation. What are the strongest examples you see today or the best case studies of how smart cities are on their way some some degree of proof or performance around the country? Either it just a singular Metro level, or maybe something something broader what has you most excited about where a smart city is today?

 
George Karayannis 

The example I would give is the city of San Jose and their 5g strategy. The reason I add that is because it 5g is foundational for the next generation of intelligent communities. And it the business model is so well aligned, that it's able to help close that digital divide at the same time. So, every there are many cities. My favorite quote is, the future is already here. It's just unevenly distributed. Right? So there are many cities, Boston, Austin, Chicago, right? There are many cities, Toronto, Mississauga all over North America and of course, globally, where there are really bright spots of success, where it's not about the shiny thing. It's about improving the process, improving the quality of life, improving that citizen visitor and business experience.

 
Tyler Suiters 

Suzanne, what about you Where, where,

 
Suzanne Murtha 

what, I'm going to back your play. I agree with everything that you said what what I see is pockets like you said, but I see pockets of success in different different different examples in different locations. Right. And that's because of the problem I described earlier about how one city we might have the transit department really interested in this and one city we might have the water department really interested. So, in Los Angeles, we've had developed a flex curb, you know, system for them. And they've, I mean, that's a fantastic success. Another one is the electrification of Chicago. We've done the electrification of the screen streets that I described there. So we. So those are two of the bright spots that, you know, are exciting to me, the city of Austin, their support of, of drone movement and their support of connected vehicles and their support of micro mobility. And so we see all kinds of different pockets of success, depending on the interest in that particular city. Sure,

 
Karen Lightman 

yeah. I mean, I guess I want to broaden the definition of smart cities. I think there was this version 1.0 of smart cities where it was like, throw a bunch of sensors and cameras everywhere, and then everyone's waiting, like, what's going to come up? And now it's more thoughtful? It's thinking about, all right, what's the right solution? What is the right tech solution? And then I also worry about this idea of Like this Swiss Army Knife of solutions, it's like everything is on a pole. And maybe that's not the right solution. Right? So, but let's be thoughtful about what because it is in the public right of way. And I worry I do worry about these the the physical beauty of our public rights of way and we need to be thoughtful about that. What I again, I want to I want to broaden the definition of smart cities. So one of the projects that we're really proud of in the city of Pittsburgh is we worked Carnegie Mellon, who worked and co created a piece of software with the Bureau of fire to help them find of the 22,000 commercial buildings and the city of Pittsburgh, the inspectors, which were there were six of them had to inspect each of those within once within five years and was enough to sink and for all the six inspectors 22,000 buildings and Maybe they know where to go, maybe they don't. And the reality is, there was data, but probably in someone's laptop and an Excel spreadsheet, or maybe on a piece of paper. And so it's digitizing that information, making it open, sharing that information, and then using machine learning tools and AI to create a formula that help them determine on a weekly basis. Okay, there have been these 311 calls that can combination of 311911 like all this information, pass building into, you know, web, permitting, requests, all that information, and it creates a dashboard, so that the Bureau of fire now can more efficiently and effectively use their existing resources. Nope. And what I also think it's exciting. It's an example of where artificial intelligence is not replacing a human and I think there's so much fear out there that AI is taking over the world, it's going to destroy all our jobs. I mean, granted, that is happening and a lot of places and I had a very strange pizza on the show floor that was made by a robot. I don't know if you had it at range but delicious. No, it was not. I will not buy the robot pizza again. I want my pizza maker and I ellos to make my pizza, but not videos. I don't know if anyone's from Pittsburgh, but that's a that's a real thing. The struggle is real. But you know, that's a great example of where AI is actually complimenting and assisting and helping and saving lives. Right? Because the as the chief of the Bureau, fire says to us, Chief Jones says the best way to fight a fire is not to have a fire to prevent a fire. So that's for me. That's what smart cities is about. It's not about gadgets and gizmos. And granted I love them but it's really about improving efficiency and effect Yes, using technology as a tool,

 
Tyler Suiters 

let's talk about some of those technologies. And we've touched and rightfully so started with 5g by the platform technology for all kinds of emerging text. But But Smart Cities is certainly one of them. Faster connectivity, broader connectivity, and low low ultra low latency, right, all of which go into elements with smart cities. Is it fair to look at the cities that are right now or will soon be broadly 5g available or 5g ready or 5g enabled and say, this is where we can look for leadership on smart cities?

 
Karen Lightman 

Now? No, well, I would say I'm gonna say, Georgia.

 
George Karayannis 

The reason being the carriers, the network operators have capital plans in the 10s of billions to deploy 5g and they're, you know, not everybody's first and and the cities that get 5g earlier. on them, you know, it's it's good on them, but it doesn't give them a great Head Start. It just gives them something they can brag about. Right? Right.

 
Suzanne Murtha 

That is a good, winner. You're exactly right marketing. They're they're the Smart City solutions, the suite of solutions that we have to support Smart Cities are not 5g dependent yet or maybe not even 5g enhanced by sometimes you

 
Karen Lightman 

don't need 5g for what you're doing right. So for connected autonomous vehicles, heck yes. Hell yes. Yeah, you need 5g and I want that future. I want that future where emergency response can be enhanced through things like 5g but some stuff doesn't need it. And I worry about this panacea like five G's gonna solve everything and then I worry I worry about the the small cell I worry about the equity piece of that. And let's say so go ahead. Go ahead.

 
George Karayannis 

Five Jesus number guess what comes next six chicks. I know there is Yeah, this is a journey marching. I

 
Suzanne Murtha 

I saw a tangey advertisement on the way.

 
Yeah. Shark, us right? What about

 
Tyler Suiters 

something along the same lines in terms of a horizontal technology, ai? And and, Karen, I want to start with you given exactly where Carnegie Mellon is in terms of public private partnerships. You as in terms of discussing Pittsburgh, you just you've talked about the challenges of self driving, which is a great example of this isn't a flat, warm, arid climate where you can get ideal test conditions you're dealing with slush was slow with snow with sleet,

 
Karen Lightman 

or wireless goes to die.

 
Tyler Suiters 

So what do you see as far as AI is an ingredient of where we're moving? I think

 
Karen Lightman 

We also have to remember, AI has been around for a really long time. Okay, so artificial intelligence actually invented at Carnegie Mellon University was they started this work in the 60s. Okay, so what we're at now is the next level of artificial intelligence. It's because the processing power, right, so all of this is connected the wireless, the why without wireless and the connectivity, a lot of the revolution and AI wouldn't be here, the processing power, right? cameras, like the fact that I have a camera and my iPad, I mean that just all of that is enhanced. So it's not AI is like one piece of it. But it's that whole connective connectivity that helps enable an AI. But that being said, Carnegie Mellon is I think number I think we are ranked number one in artificial intelligence, right? We have we started the first undergraduate degree in artificial intelligence. And you know what the first year freshmen have to take at Carnegie Mellon, they have to take an ethics class. All right. So it's the idea that if you're thinking about what the machine can do, you need to be thinking about the unintended consequences. You need to be thinking and it needs to be done simultaneously. It's not designed in afterwards. And I think that's where we can provide leadership. Carnegie Mellon has this moniker of being at the intersection of technology and humanity. I like to flip it and talk about being at the intersection of humanity first, and technology. And I think that's really important that we have social and decision scientists who are co creating along with us as we design artificial intelligence.

 
Tyler Suiters 

What about a broader example? It's not tech technology specific, but the idea of higher energy efficiency that and the cost savings and the resource savings that sports cities enable. Is there an example that has you excited right now.

 
George Karayannis 

So from an AI, including AI are just absolutely

 
Tyler Suiters 

in or out

 
George Karayannis 

so AI is being used to identify low hanging fruit building Right, which building should be targeted first, it's certainly being used within each building. And in terms of submetering. Putting a single meter and set submetering is very expensive. And so if you want to save energy, you need to know where you're using it. And so, you know, it could be 500 to $1,000 or more to add a sub meter in a building, and that gets very expensive. So there are many vendors out there today, just putting a single sensor on on the panel and using AI to determine the low profiles of each load. So it's really driving it in the built environment pretty aggressively. I would also say we're seeing it very, very strongly emerged in the connected vehicle. segment, right? I've heard that within three years, we expect over 100 million connected vehicles on the road, generating over 150 petabytes of data. Okay, that just, that's an order of magnitude different than we're able to deal with right now. And that's way more than just processing, right that is that is fundamentally going to require things like artificial intelligence.

 
Suzanne Murtha 

Right. And then like to add to everything you said was right, I want to augment everything you said, and also, a lot of AI at intersections is something that we're seeing to manage to manage an intersection movement through traffic signals. But also, I want to say that, I don't know if this AI discussion, or any of the additional technologies are really enabling smart cities, like we mentioned earlier, but are enabling pockets of individual columns of contracts in different cities to improve independently of each other. So when we talk about AI across a whole, whole city to make a smart city, we'd be looking at improvements needed in buildings and inspections needed in buildings and roads at the same time, so maybe we could send out a crew to inspect the roads and the buildings at the same time, and that sort of add some intelligence and add some efficiency to the system right, but that's Not what any of these enabling technologies are doing 5g or AI, what they're doing is improving silos.

 
Tyler Suiters 

What about the challenges that we're facing right now? And let's start with policy, which we already touched on. Number one is right of way, the biggest regulatory or policy challenge right now, is it about as Karen, you outline the the unintended consequences of having one taxation system in place where that's changing inherently and there's no replacement? Is it a revenue situation? What do you all say? I would say it's, it all stems from leadership in in cities and regions that have very strong leadership that is broadly supported there. They're truly moving the needle. And so financing is a huge problem. But if you have the right leadership, that becomes a manageable problem. Right. And so it really, from my perspective, stems from strong, clear leadership that is broadly supported in the city or region.

 

Karen Lightman 

Yeah, I mean, I think leadership is really important and we're really Lesson Pittsburgh that we have Mayor peduto, who has embraced this, but it's also it's a combination of top down and bottom up, because it is about the people and I think sidewalk labs in Toronto has given us a really great glimpse of the future. And also the the, that the community went, wait a minute, you want to have all our data or just supposed to trust, you know, that's not going to happen. And and I think the good thing about what sidewalk labs now is doing is that they are they're co creating, and they're iterating. And they and they haven't, you know really done much yet. And it's still very much in the planning stages. And I think you need to be thoughtful and intentional. And so it's a combination of top down and it's Bottoms up. And I think it's really important that there's information and and that citizen engagement is is is a threat and a threat, not a threat. It's a thread throughout it could be a thread, but you know, let's let's embrace that. And I also, you know, we're in a democracy, you know, we were talking earlier about like, this is going to be a different conversation if you're in a different country like China, like, but we were in America, and we believe in democracy, and we want to, we want to create communities that are stable. We want to improve quality of life for every citizen, not just the rich elite. And so I think it's super critical that we find mechanisms of having that feedback loop. I was very heartened. I will not publicly say this often that something with the Trump administration announced, was the CTO today talking about this department of transportation or corporate CEOs. Yes, thank you, and that they are doing a 60 day of feedback, and they want to encourage people to give that feedback. I think that's fantastic. That's the kind we should have these kinds of, you know, forums for discussion, but we should also expect We shouldn't expect people to come to us, we should also go to where the people are. So, you know, have like pop up shops and ways of engaging. And there's a lot of great work being done and user centered design that's focused on sent citizen engagement. So it's not like new. And I think those are the tools that we can use to no order that the projects that we're doing are sustainable and equitable. And they help improve
 

George Karayannis 

citizen quality of life. I think a great example of what you just discussed is the city of San Diego, they spent $30 million to put out 3500, smart streetlights. And really, they're sensor nodes with some edge processing video, right? They're not, they're just connected to the streetlight, quite honestly. And they're there for environmental sensing and traffic and pedestrian counting. It's very benign, there's no personal information that is conveyed. However, they did not do a good enough job of community outreach and so on. portion of the citizens pushed back sued to stop this, right? Here's $30 million of money being spent, good momentum being made, and somebody forgot to, you know, dot the i's and cross the T's, right, there's what I have learned in smart cities is that you are never going to communicate well enough. There are always too many stakeholder groups, and too many individuals within each stakeholder group to really inform and educate them. So you have to do it. You can never just do it well enough. And if that's your starting point, you stand a chance.

 
Tyler Suiters 

Suzanne, your perspective, maybe from a federal level to coming from the Washington DC area?

 
Suzanne Murtha 

Yeah, so my answer to this is going to be a little more specific. From the transportation side. The number one policy problem we're facing in deploying life saving technologies is the lack of standardization. The recent action on behalf of the FCC, which has was is going to essentially stop connected vehicle deployments from Maybe five years until 5g is able to support connected, connected vehicles. And those standards aren't expected for three to five years. So, from a practitioner from a Deployer perspective, I see that that that action is going to cause a halt. And then when we're killing over 30,000 people a year, every year in car and in car crashes, you know, that number adds up. That's pretty substantial considering this started in 2016, with a letter to Toyota asking Toyota not to deploy ideas or seeing the vehicles 30,000 people a year since then, which is a conservative estimate. And plus the 30,000 people are going to kill again for the next five years because of this is a huge substantial number and a huge policy problem for deploying something that so console, obviously, and clearly make an impact, probably a bigger impact on fatalities since the invention of the seatbelt, or the deployment or the mandate of the seat belt. I mean that that's a pretty big deal. And that's highlighted rectifiable
 

Tyler Suiters 

so our Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao here at CES today announced the four point O rules for for self driving vehicles. And you share such compelling number was it?

 
Karen Lightman 

Was it self driving vehicles?
 

Suzanne Murtha 

It was automated thinking automated. So do you want me to help with that? Yeah, I love that. You did not say no, it was not
 

Karen Lightman 

let me let me help this declare

 
Suzanne Murtha 

University of Vermont. I went to Catholic schools for like 20 years. So I love language. I can't do math, but I'm diagramming sentences as you speak. Alright. So when I speak, I talk about automated vehicles. That's because we are the term automated means when we use a machine to do the work of a human right. And that's actually what's going on with the cars and vehicles that we see outside there are not autonomous, autonomous means something that functions independently of other things. And that is not what these vehicles are doing. There. A machine is doing the work of a human so the most technically correct term is an automated vehicle. Does
 

Karen Lightman 

that help? Thank you. It's been bugging me all day. Think I
 

Tyler Suiters 

noted
 

Suzanne Murtha 

It's a curse. The whole grammar thing is occurring. I'm working on it.
 

Tyler Suiters 

George, I used to love English class. I don't know what
 

Suzanne Murtha 

I just wrecked it for everybody.
 

Tyler Suiters 

And also is getting back to the question that you share such compelling numbers and and, you know, the idea of taking human error out of the equation, when we're driving or not driving is especially compelling, right, talking about 35,000, roughly, traffic deaths a year caused by human error just here in the US. So that should be enough of motivation to push legislation regulation through it, right? Let's broaden that across something like smart cities where we're talking maybe about something less, less dramatic than that amount of live safe, but the money saved on efficiency. You know, the opportunity to save the lower crime, whatever statistic or data set you want to use. There's a compelling case to be made. Is that enough though to drive faster action at the Local at the federal level at the state level.
 

Suzanne Murtha 

I'm going with no because it hasn't.
 

Karen Lightman 

But you know, so something that we're doing in Pittsburgh, we're calling the Pittsburgh principles. And so Carnegie Mellon played the role of convener, Raj Raj Kumar, who I
 

Suzanne Murtha 

don't know if he's in the audience, but I'll call you out if there are, there isn't the best. All right, there is

 
Karen Lightman 

Hello, Raj. Raj is the guru of autonomous vehicle safety. He spun out a company called automatic le that then was acquired by Delphi and then they spun that out as active which is a big deal and autonomous vehicles. So Raj is very self spoken, he would never talk about this for himself, but he's well respected in the community and the autonomous vehicle companies we have 12 actually in Pittsburgh, there are six actively using the streets. And there was a concern there's a pushback from the community after the death in Tempe, Arizona, about the safety and there was a need for Okay, let's can we share information? And so we came, they crafted themselves a self created the Pittsburgh principles and you can you can Google it, I'm not going to sell it verbatim or tell you verbatim, but it's it's really to help guide and this is this is also not obligatory. It's not enforced, but it's in collaboration with the city of Pittsburgh, so that the streets can be safer and that citizens are safe. And the good thing is touchwood. We haven't had any accidents of any significance. And Nope, no one's died. And I think those are really important things. And so we need to have these active test beds. We need to have, you know, test beds and roads without people as well. But I think if we're going to move this along, there needs to be but there needs to be collaboration. It cannot be one company, by itself. It's got to be that public private partnership.
 

George Karayannis 

What I've seen is, you know, we talked about autonomous mobility, like it's one thing Right. It's not just like smart cities, it is a process is a journey. It's a spectrum. And so full level five autonomy. You know, we work very closely with many of the autonomous shuttle providers in the market, right. And their view and my view over the past year has been that full autonomy is easily 20 to 30 years out easily. And if you, you know, if you've driven a Tesla in autonomous mode, semi autonomous mode, or or any other vehicle, these capabilities adaptive cruise control, lane centering, automatic lane shifting, these are seeping into more and more vehicles. And so it is this kind of standard, right? So I have I have it and if you haven't, I urge you to test drive one of these vehicles, it is freakishly good. I love technology. And so I am beginning to believe that it's really closer 10 years and you know, I'm not optimistic about it but but that is it's the mark up
 

Karen Lightman 

yes to its automated and that there's five levels, right. So that's considered level two.
 

Suzanne Murtha 

What is that lane the lane keeping?

 
Karen Lightman 

Yeah, Lane Keeping and the cruise control.
 

Suzanne Murtha 

So actually, so my safety friends have from Consumer Reports and from AAA, maybe less so but they've asked us to actually not not look at levels. Because the the discussion of those each of those tasks into into such discrete sections is sometimes confusing, and can be sometimes dangerous. Because we've we want to talk about a vehicle being level five automated, so people have different expectations. And so there's actually a movement to sort of look at the terms that we use to describe each of those to be more standard across the industry. And to You know to be a little bit safer and how we talked about which is very interesting and I'm sure
 

George Karayannis 

and and having had these capabilities in my car for only a week I immediately now go to what what is called spat signal phase and timing right my car's intelligent in and of itself, but when it can talk to stop lights on you know, I'm already pissed off that my car cannot talk to those stoplights it this is coming and it's going to just seep into society, because those who continue to buy automobiles are just going to have more and more of these features are not

 
Tyler Suiters 

going to be able to next communication,

 
Karen Lightman 

right. But the thing is, until we have some standardization of that communication network, it's not gonna happen. It's not gonna happen
 

George Karayannis 

until we have financing.

 
Tyler Suiters 

Well, let's let's pull back a little bit before we get too deeply and just to just a vehicle. For one panel, you realize you're the transportation sector manglish class over to philosophy class a little bit our imaginations big enough? Are we thinking of the right big ideas around smart cities we moving in the right directions? And I asked that. You mentioned Karen sidewalk labs by Google in Toronto. I was fortunate enough to be there earlier in the fall last year. And it's it's it was beyond my expectations of what a smart city is. It's almost a living style and lifestyle of the future, right? Smaller living spaces, because that's really where we seem to be going right. Much more sustainable materials for Howard building it not just in terms of how we use and how long they last, but how they're sourced and it can we renew those sources. So that to me was an example of big thinking, right, bright imaginations. Are we thinking in the right direction, as you say?
 

Karen Lightman 

We are at Carnegie Mellon. And we actually have a project. It's called Atlas autonomous technologies for livability and sustainability spells, right. I don't see it. of creating a community and a digital twin of both buildings and energy as well as transportation. It's the idea of that system of systems that efficiency, where it's about energy, it's about that, that circle that circular economy. And so we can reduce greenhouse gas emissions. It's 40% of greenhouse gas emissions in the United States are from buildings, because they are heated and cooled inefficiently, that there's so much room for improvement and beyond energy creation, which is fantastic. And I, you know, I want to have everything electrified. But the thing is, if you plug in your electric car in Pittsburgh right now, you're burning coal, right? And so we need to have more efficiency of energy and you know, the work that you're doing is fantastic. with solar. And there's, there's I think there's so much opportunity I absolutely feel like smart city of the future is real, but we have to be so thoughtful and intentional. We need to have that human feedback loop a lot every stage in, in concert technology is us just shooting through, you know, in terms of and then you know the rep. You know, it's the iPhone, you know, just think about where you were before your iPhone and now it's so different The world is so different right now. But the policies are so lagging government is so lacking so we need to have that policy and engage conversation and with the citizens so they're not scared freaked out by streetlight right. And so I think there's there's so we have so much potential, it's it but we have to do it thoughtfully and intentionally or it doesn't look good.
 

Suzanne Murtha 

I think that is challenging. I think that is challenging to make sure we're asking the right questions when our clients are not necessarily focused on a broader on a broader problem set. Right. So we had like I said, we have clients in the water department and So it's kind of hard to, but, you know, a calm, we really do try to stay ahead of that. And one of the things that we do is look to the youth in our organization of our 85,000 engineers, we do invest a lot in in challenges for them, and they come up with fantastic solutions, like nanotechnology built into asphalt, all this kind of, for us, the monitoring the systems, great partnerships, that they come up with that, you know, a Carnegie Mellon to partnerships with looking at the infrastructure, from cameras on vehicles, or from data from automated vehicles that understand the environment, so that we can do asset management, you know, across buildings and asset management on the ground to looking at all these great, you know, try to look at the broad, broader problems and solve them. However, like I mentioned, it's it's more challenging to sell those when there is not a client willing to buy broader solution sets, right. So that's something that we'd like to
 

George Karayannis 

George, I would say that there is bright enough vision among city federal leaders among vendors, startups and big companies alike. But I don't think we're focused on the right priorities. If you believe gretta, then we have two real priorities, decarbonisation and community resiliency. And I don't give a damn about anything else.
 

Tyler Suiters 

If you were to look at Panasonic booth at CES in Central Ohio, I encourage you to go very forward thinking like you're looking ahead, what is it that you're doing in house that you think is absolutely the right direction is going to take a while. But man, we've we've got this nailed in terms of moving towards mode. So I'd

 
George Karayannis 

say what we're doing that's really transformational is connected mobility, right, really building that open data platform to take the data from these connected vehicles, working across multiple departments of transportation to create that open data standard platform that can really help at least from a connected mobile perspective, reduce deaths, injuries, accidents, three quarters 75%, you know, at a minimum. So I'd say that's a shining example. You know, what Panasonic is
 

Tyler Suiters 

where we're leading? What about where your resources are at Carnegie Mellon? kiona? What would the brilliant minds that I don't use that term loosely? There are focusing on what what is it that has, you know, so enthusiastic about what's to come out of your lives?
 

Karen Lightman 

Well, I think there's a there's a lot and i what i want I'm excited about is like was mentioning with this Atlas project with the idea that it's multidisciplinary. And we're thinking about things not just in technology and an artificial intelligence and engineering but also in terms of ethics and policy and the sociological in this design, the human design that human interface and the architecture. And I think that's what's exciting me is that we have, we're now coming at that place where we can we have to co create Create together the end we have to be we have to improve efficiency. I think this issue of climate change is really is really critical. And so we have to improve those efficiencies. And so there's a political will that perhaps wasn't there 10 years ago and it's and I think the timing is right, I think the partners are aligned hopefully the funding will come and we can get to realize some of these things. So you know, I think it's it's an exciting time I mean, there's Eureka park here at CES is a great place to see where the future is. And I've been coming to see us long enough that what's exciting to me is I I've been going to your heart for is just as long and I'm now seeing companies that have graduated right and are now having and hopefully are going to succeed because I think the this issue of resilience and climate, and it's it's got to be you can't play whack a mole anymore. We gotta use the technology and and in cooperation with this more of the social side, once
 

Tyler Suiters 

you break apart more than 1200 startups from 50 plus countries in the sands, please get there at some point during this show, you'll be rewarded. With these experts on hand. I want to thank you all for staying this late in the day on a Wednesday and and open it up to questions if you would just raise your hand will select totally randomly. But if you would stand up, state your name, whom you're with, and please don't make a statement, ask a question and value these experts time. So happy to take some if you'd like. Please.
 
 
Very interested in what you think the role of electric load shaping is.

 
George Karayannis 

I would say it's essential. It It is a part of its it is secondary to electrification. Right you we have got to decarbonize. First we have to elect we have to decarbonize the grid, and we have to electrify mobility and the built environment right. And so, load shaping, the advent of storage of cost effective storage makes that both less of a challenge and much more feasible at scale at scale. So, so technology and in particular, the cost curve for lithium ion storage at at at scale will really help when paired with solar in particular, will help mitigate that, but it's important, but it's less important than decarbonising generation.
 

Tyler Suiters 

Now, the question right here, sir, please. Yeah, we're like, way off. Right.

 
Suzanne Murtha 

So and so and so fiber supporting that is a really important underlying and we did shoot way over the basic. So I apologize, but we can certainly talk after in finite detail about how to do that because I have a whole team of people who does that who do that. And then also, I might suggest there are several US Department of Transportation grants for, for fiber for laying fiber in a city and I can talk you through all those in detail, but that that's the underlying approach and, and enabling a system with fiber to do Wi Fi will also enable many other technologies going forward, including 5g and whatever else we'd like to deploy.
 

Karen Lightman 

And I think it gets to that equity issue is Well, I mean, if you have children who have homework, it's there's an expectation that a child has Access to Wi Fi so that he or she can do their homework and a lot of kids don't. And so I think that, that this really speaks to this issue of if we don't have the core basic infrastructure. A lot of people on behalf of Pennsylvania and people people in Pennsylvania don't have access to high speed broadband, so that their kids can do that homework. Yeah,
 

Tyler Suiters 

I recently had the we at the consumer Technology Association. See it is such a critical element that every two years we issue our US innovation scorecard, Katie gauging states and how well they welcome innovation through the policies and connectivity is a key element. This year, we built 5g into that scorecard which was unveiled just yesterday. That's immensely important investment in that. Please.
 
 
Back up to you in the before WiFi we talked we're talking about easing bridges.

 
Karen Lightman 

So there's a new technology. It's a company that just launched it's called robotics. They just got their first round of series a funding, and they take a simple camera. And it's a way of digitizing infrastructure and helping communities. It's in Detroit, and it's in 200 cities across the country now. It's a way of analyzing the health of their aging infrastructure. And it does it in a very simple map. And it does it in colors of red, yellow and green.
 

Suzanne Murtha 

And it's an NSF Carnegie Mellon Oh,

 
Karen Lightman 

yeah, that right? That's right. And, and I think with that, so it's so novel, and it's a way to help make investment decisions so that communities can look They're aging infrastructure, their streets or sidewalks and have a better way of assessing what needs, what needs to be repaired, and what can wait and what is the best use of resources. And it's another way of using AI as a tool for equity. Right? Because communities that are at risk, they may not want to call for service. They feel like they don't want to get attention to there. But if it's something that's automated with a camera that's looking through every city street, it can do that information and they can determine which communities are need the investment because there are scarce resources.
 

Tyler Suiters 

I think we have time for one more question over here, please
 

Suzanne Murtha 

I don't think that there has necessarily been public approval. Let's talk about New York, for example, and I live in DC and I and I actually, I managed the pride I managed the testing of the 495 Express Lanes. Yeah, you work with love and those guys. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Mine too. We we didn't get public approval for that right for for the 495 Express Lanes or for New York City do to New York City's reduce charging right. We had there was a governor, the governor of New York said we're going to do road use charging in six weeks. Here's the RFP. No, I'm not exaggerating. It was insane. I had to fly from vacation into New York to do a normal presentation over the course of 18 hours because the governor New York said so it wasn't a public approval situation. It was we have to do this to save the city. So I don't have a good clean answer for you, but sometimes we don't. And when we're done, I'm going to tell you about how I talked to one of our local members of Congress and God brought him around and now he's a fan of transer. And I'm looking at the clock here. story after
 

Tyler Suiters 

Thank you Suzanne respecting the clock. One more lightning round question for for each of our panelists. We are having this very panel in this very room 10 years from now. What are we discussing in 3040 seconds, George.
 

George Karayannis 

The rise of autonomy, autonomous mobility will transform, travel, individual travel, it will transform logistics, it will transform the city scape.
 

Tyler Suiters 

Karen ces 2030 Smart Cities panel we're discussing.

 
Karen Lightman 

I'm hoping that we can have a conversation that we've actually reduced the climate impact and that greenhouse gas emissions from buildings and transportation have been cut at least in half. That's what I'd like to see.

 
Suzanne Murtha 

Susan automation and I'm going to add electrification to that we'd like to see, I think that's going to be transferred. And cities to be able to have that capability built in. And was that within the transportation fleet specifically, I'm afraid.

 
Suzanne Murtha 

No, I mean, I was gonna try to balance it out. So I'm going with I don't have to answer that because

 
Tyler Suiters 

that is safe. Thank you for your time today. If you haven't been in the Smart Cities exhibit area, please head out to the West Gate. See it? It's even larger than last year. We're growing year over year based on the interest in smart cities, in resilience in our communities in our cities and our countries as well. I want to thank all of our panelists Suzanne mirtha with a calm Karen Lightman with Carnegie Mellon, George, Coriolanus with Panasonic, it's been a pleasure, please take advantage of these experts. Come talk to them after this panelists and enjoy the rest of ces 2020.
 

Karen Lightman 

Thank you. Thank you.

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