Natalie Novak 

Hi everyone, good morning to see yes day two. My name is Natalie Novak and I'm one of your MCs for the sea space storyteller stage today. I have six sessions happening today and you won't want to miss our 1pm session which features Grammy Award tivity data from knotch. Please welcome on de Gotha, co founder and CEO.

 
Anda Gansca 

Hello, everyone. Happy New Year. And good morning. My name is Anda. I'm the co founder and CEO of Knotch. And I'm really excited to be back here at the C Space for the third year running with some of the most incredible marketers in the world. The last few years I've stood on the stage not only as the CEO but content intelligence company or a data nerd, but also as a transparency advocate. But unlike the last two years, I feel like I can finally move on from raising awareness on the issue of data transparency, and actually talking about the reality of today. On January 1 this year, the California consumer Privacy Act went into effect. And I'm not sure if it's all of us being here at CES talking about it. That's magnifying its importance. But this legislation change really feels like a pivotal moment for our industry, especially knowing that Nevada, Maine, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Illinois, Hawaii, and others have either enacted or are in the process of enacting similar legislation. Most people have talked about what this means for ad tech companies, how data will not be collected, and how that will impact data exchanges, marketing attribution models and targeting. But I wanted to take a quick moment today to talk about the core of where this hits the most. The relationship between the brand and its customers. For the past few years, and especially in 2019, every brand under the sun wanted to go direct to consumer or DDC. The intention to make sense the most successful companies of today are companies who have built their own audiences Facebook, Twitter, Amazon as a result New and traditional brands have followed, acknowledging that without that direct relationship with the consumer, your brand loses affinity trust relevance power. That being said, one of the biggest challenges of the 2019 b2c craze was that it often meant only putting together a social media performance marketing strategy without a strong first party data foundation. And while this dealt with the direct and real time elements of b2c, it did not build audience it merely borrowed it from the big platforms. As a result, marketers struggled not only with the resulting capacity, but also with rising costs of acquiring customers and often a dilution of their brand. This coupled with the ramifications of data privacy legislation changes both of the past and those on the horizon, lead me to believe that while the focus on DTC will be as strong in 2020 as it was in 2019, it will mean something very Different, namely two things, high quality content and transparent data governance. First off, I'm here to predict that one of the main and immediate outcomes of ccpa will be a renewed imperative for brands to create the high quality content needed for an online consumer to want to continue investing their attention and data into that relationship. According to axiom in the Direct Marketing Association, the vast majority of online consumers 51%, globally and 58% in the US, are what's called a data pragmatist. Those who are willing to share their data as as long as there's a value exchange there. This fair value exchange will force brands to earn the right to collect and use consumer personal data. The Golden Age of data has highlighted to consumers just how valuable their personal data is, which means they'll expect this fair value exchange in every single digital interaction from every one of their brands. As a result, hi Quality relevant content is paramount not only to engagement, sentiment, attention, etc, but to the foundation of the value exchange needed for brands continue collecting and utilizing first party data. But creating relevant content to source first party data by not actually be enough on its own. As it turns out, consumers are growing in sophistication and about 25% of consumers around the world identified themselves as data fundamentalists, meaning that they will not give up control of their data for any value exchange. What they seek is visibility, transparency and control over there did identity online and how it is used. And while this group is a minority, they have the loudest voices and drive most of the legislative changes. This is why I believe that beyond getting that consent to source first party data, brands need to embrace transparent data governance as the new currency and the new language of brand trust.

 
Anda Gansca 

At Kotch we have been betting that the future of marketing is at the intersection between high quality content and transparent data governance for about four years. And we couldn't be more excited to work with some of the leading brands in the world including MasterCard, Salesforce, JPMorgan, Chase, Walmart, for BlackRock, Facebook, Amazon, at&t, and so on. All of these brands believe that the future of creativity and data really lies at the intersection between high quality content and transparent governance as well. So on that note, I'm really excited for today's conversation, we have three of the most impactful CMOS in our industry, all three of them fighting for creative excellence, and data driven marketing in three very different industries. All of them have been marketers for a long time. So I'm excited to talk to them not only about the intersection of creativity and data, but also about the evolution of the CMO role, arguably the fastest transforming role in the C suite. Please join me in welcoming Raja Raja Rajamannar. Raja is is an accomplished go business executive with more than 25 years of experience, the last six of which have been in his current role of Chief Marketing Communications Officer of MasterCard, and presidents president of the company's health care business. Raja is consistently recognized globally as a highly innovative and transformational leader with a deep expertise in marketing data and digital technologies. Some of his recent accolades include global marketer of the Year Award by the World Federation of advertisers, top five world's most influential CMOS by Forbes, top 10. World's Most Innovative CMOS by Business Insider and inductee to the CMO club Hall of Fame. He has also been recognized as one of Adweek most tech savvy CMOS, he recently assumed the honorary role of President of the World Federation of advertisers. Welcome Raja.

 
Raja Rajamannar 

Thank you. I should call you to MasterCard to speak to my CEO just before the bonus times place yeah. Somebody else being it's feels so nice.

 
Anda Gansca 

Oh, thank you. Raja Stephanie Buscemi. Stephanie Lee. A global team of marketers focused on advancing sales versus mission to bring companies and customers together through Salesforce the world's first customer relationship management platform. In her previous sales for Salesforce role as EVP Product Marketing Stephanie led the product marketing organization oversaw all go to market strategy across the entire Salesforce portfolio of products. Stephanie's an accomplished business leader with more than 20 years of success at IHS SAP, Oracle business objects and Hyperion and has been recognized by Adweek on its top chief marketing technology officers list. Thank you, Stephanie. Welcome.

 
Stephanie Buscemi 

Thank you.

 
Anda Gansca 

Angela de de Zepeda. I practiced so much. Angela was named Chief Marketing Officer for Hyundai Motor Company in October and is responsible for all of Hyundai's marketing and advertising activities in the US, including the strategic direction brand development national regional advertising. experiential marketing, digital and social media brand partnerships and the generation, Angela comes to Hyundai as a seasoned marketing executive with more than 25 years of experience at leading agencies in LA, including her most recent role as SVP at Hyundai's agency of record and ocean. Angela is also an expert in marketing to women with a keen understanding of the emotional triggers involved in women's retail habits. She has spoken on the topic at various conferences around the globe, including the marketing to women conferences in Chicago and Copenhagen. Welcome. So, I'm so excited to have you all here today. I think it's fascinating that you three bring perspectives from three very different industries. And I wanted to kick off with some of the harder questions because we have creativity versus data. And I want to start off with the data questions, because I'm assuming that when you first came into the market as marketers, the marketing world was a lot more about creativity than it was about data. So tell us a little bit Want to hear from each of you on this? What has been one of the biggest challenges as you've thought about getting yourself educated on on data driven marketing and getting your teams to fall in line on that? And on that note, how do you guys think about ccpa? And the impact that it's going to have on your organization's on your ability to continue doing targeting personalization, etc? And also feel free to disagree with everything I said in my speech?

 
Anda Gansca 

Who wants to take it first?

 
Raja Rajamannar 

I said it's hard question. So I'll say Ladies first.

 
Angela Zepeda 

Well, I'll start How about that? Being in the automotive category, we have a lot to do. We basically break it down. I think I'm getting some feedback and I apologize, but um, you know, we have a national level and then we have our regional level, which is Co Op money with our dealers, and then we have dealer marketing. And all of those are very important functions. And while that's the way we see and work our business That isn't the way the consumer sees it. So one of the biggest things we have to do is use data to inform those decisions from everything from investment, to the messaging to the way that retarget audiences. And data is a huge part of how we do that. And we do take privacy very seriously. We do have a lot of information on our owners, and that isn't something we take lightly. And that information is support not only at Hyundai, but at our agencies. And it's it's a really big deal for us to make sure privacy is adhere to and we use that data appropriately.

 
Anda Gansca 

Thank you, Stephanie.

 
Stephanie Buscemi 

Yeah, data for me has a personal story that it starts with so I promise I won't be like when I was two, but won't go that far back. But in all seriousness, I think I in a marketing role, I started on the data side and came into marketing versus being more in brand and creative and then pulling didn't data last. My background and career is an anlaytics, business intelligence. And I actually found very early in my career as a woman, that woman and a marketer, that data could be a really powerful tool because for any other marketers out there in the room, you know, there's sometimes you say, do you make it or sell it? And if you don't, you're the fat in the organization. And so I found really early on my career that hey, wait a minute data and analytics takes that emotion out when I need to go to a CEO to a CFO and command the budgets that I need to really drive the demand to get the awareness that I need. So that was a really powerful tool for me that unlocked doors for me personally in my career. And so it It's nice to see that it's continued on and people I I never think when you say data like the title of this, you said we're allowed to argue with you creativity versus data. It's not a versus for me, it's most certainly and and and I think for most of us I look at data and and feel like there's no possible we're not there yet that this can all the analytics out there can fully replace the human eye. I still think we all stare down data and analytics. It's not really just the data. It's the analysis and the insights out of that. And it's really the marrying of that with the human component of it. And so that's a that's a central thing for Salesforce. I came into Salesforce in 2014, to actually launch our analytics business when Salesforce wasn't in the space and focus on data people have seen our journey. We've now in integration, and highly focus, I think it's really a marriage of the two.

 
Raja Rajamannar 

There are three parts to your question.

 
Anda Gansca 

Yeah, I know. So the

 
Raja Rajamannar 

first part was, I don't lose that by the first one in terms of data in our from my own journey. I have been a chemical engineer. I specialized a lot of data analytics, right from a education days. So I'm very quantitative by nature. I think till about 1970s data had very little role to play in marketing. And you're absolutely spot on. When I said most of the marketers have come through the creative route, and that's what they held as most important for them. I think the credit card industry is the one which really began a substantial amount of data analytics in the early 80s. because of the sheer volumes of direct mail that they will do and understand what is the risk part of models and what is lifetime consumer values and so on. From then on, there has been no looking back. But data used to be more the better way of the large companies which are technically savvy or data savvy. But I think there is so much of democratization of data today that any small company also can equally use data. First party, second party, third party whichever way it is, and make a huge difference without data. I think marketing is dead. I keep saying that. The Future of marketing is dependent on two key areas. One is data data. One is technology. If you don't really keep yourself abreast of these two areas, and stay at the cutting edge as a marketer, you will go obsolete very quickly. So that's number one. That brings me to the second point you asked aboard How do you do it for the people on the team? I'm blessed at MasterCard to have, you know, an outstanding team. We hand picked, we nurtured we cultivated and I feel very proud and I'm scared that I'll lose any one of them at any point and

 
Anda Gansca 

recruit from MasterCard, yes, don't record player not great,

 
Raja Rajamannar 

you will not be able to effort the mechanician but the key thing is these folks what we are doing is investing a lot in training them and cross training them. There are two streams of marketers, the classical marketers and the contemporary marketers. The classical marketers are very good at all the aspects of product positioning the purchase funnel The consumer psychology and so on. And the contemporary ones are the data, the experimentation, the digital, these contemporary guys, they are not great at classical and the classical folks have not created contemporary skill. So cross training is extremely critical. And that's something which we have been investing in quite a lot. And I feel right now we're in a very good shape. And unlike many other companies, MasterCard has got one unique advantage, maybe it's an unfair advantage, where we have access to real time consumer behavioral data. So therefore, we are able to track data. So each time somebody is using the card, I know instantly that something has happened. Unlike in a situation if I had to mark market a shampoo, for example, there is a whole funnel down the line, I take an action today but the reaction happens quite sometime down the line. So attribution becomes more difficult whereas in our case, so we wanted to inherited take advantage of it and move forward. That brings me to the third component. How do I feel as a consumer first and foremost, About how my data is used. I don't want my data to be abused. And I don't want this marketing guys to be marketing the hell out of my data. I don't like it, I want my privacy. I think before I put on my cap as a marketer, I need to think of myself as a consumer. So whether it is a ccpa, you're talking about GDPR utakata II privacy, what are the kinds of various laws that are coming out there? I agree hundred percent with the principles. The principles are very important, but how the manifest if as a brand marketer, if I have to deal with 50 states, and each state has its own law, and each country has its own law, for a multinational company, and which has got cross border kind of scenario, which many companies have these days, it becomes virtually impossible. So I think the laws have to be very pragmatic. And I think I would really support the principles but the manifestation has to be focused on pragmatic aspects of implementing the law. That's what I would say.

 
Anda Gansca 

That makes sense. Thank you. I have a lot of follow up questions to all of your responses. Let me ask you, at a high level, you mentioned, you know, creativity versus data, creativity and data. How have you structured your teams around data? Is data pervasive tissue that kind of goes across the entire marketing team? Or do you have a data team that is, is in charge of that and leading the efforts on that front and a creative team? It sounds like Roger, you have a data team, right?

 
Raja Rajamannar 

Yeah. So the way we work is we have got two sets. One is that as a data organization within residing within marketing, and there is an enterprise wide data team, I'm talking about data analytics, I'm not talk of data warehouse, I'm not talking ID, that's all a different ballgame. So these two organizations collaborate very closely. And the larger enterprise wide data, they do all kinds of analytics, whether it is fraud warning, or it is detecting various changes and that trend does spending And so on the marketing analytics are done by the marketing folks. But there is a very tight collaboration between the two of them.

 
Stephanie Buscemi 

Got it, we have a very similar structure. So an enterprise structure across the entire organization and then a marketing data analytics team. I think just building on one of the things that you were saying in the prior our responsibility as CMOS to cultivate and grow and develop a new kind of marketer. I'm not interested in sequestering the data and analytics team anymore. I am really trying to do a lot more to integrate those into I get a lot of times marketers who will come in and kind of whatever the new channel hype cycle is, someone will be excited about social or mobile or email or and know that they'll always be something there, that they're there and I've looked at it and think, Nope, that's great. You want to be an expert at that channel. But the reality is the data is the foundation. The analytics are the foundation And really trying to instruments that everyone in the team has a shared hypothesis around the data. Because as we all know, you can do a lot of things with the data, you can make up all your own stories. And it actually can be a bit dangerous. If you don't just you can't just hand the data to the dashboards, I know this after my career in this, you actually have to get your team around the table and really get a shared grounding and hypothesis on the data.

 
Anda Gansca 

But I think what's interesting is if you don't know what you're measuring for, and you don't have an aligned vision of success and what KPIs should be, then you don't know what you're getting. And you're probably not optimizing for the right things either.

 
Stephanie Buscemi 

True, very true. And I think what is happening right now, at least I can speak in in our experiences, you know, I kind of feel like the word lead being historically in b2b marketing, where b2b and b2c lead to me as kind of like a four letter word right now like, you know, It is. And I'm looking right now and saying, I want to push that to the side. I want all of marketing and Beyond Marketing the organization to be measured around engagement. Now we use the word engagement very loosely and it's a broad brushstroke. So let me be specific. It doesn't, it's not going to work anymore, just have a market are measured on email, mobile, social, the things that they've instrumented, we have to be looking across the entire organization, truly every customer touch point, which is actually our core value proposition as a company and be looking at Do we really have a full view of you or me How are you interacting with our service center? How what is the marketing? What was the last sales engagement? How are you transacting on the commerce site, all of those things together and and create an engagement score with attribution there. I love the real time that you have there, but I think we kind of need to blow up these lead. Lead models are pretty antiquated. And for us, it's about an engagement, a set of engagement metrics that transcend every customer touch point.

 
Anda Gansca 

So Angela, yesterday, we had a really fun podcast together, we talked a lot about the role of emotion in the larger set of metrics that you would be thinking about and collecting. What What role does that play for you guys, as you think about both structuring your data teams, but also thinking about what the impact of your brand storytelling should be?

 
Angela Zepeda 

Yeah, cuz there's a lot of data that's available, especially in the automotive space, maybe sometimes too much. So if I focused on just answering where we use data when we inform our creative or marketing decisions, I think it's really twofold. We have enterprise corporate data that we use to inform business decisions, and that's held a little bit within Hyundai. And it's shared with our agencies because of course then marketing and business plans are very tied together. And there's a lot of data that shared at that level. When it comes to marketing and advertising. We really leverage our agencies to help us hold and manage that data. Our DMP is actually at our agency. All of our target audience segmentation happens with our media agency. And we work in very close collaboration with them. They are very much the extension of our marketing department. And it feels like one cohesive unit. We do it it is part of the same it is it is part of the same company, both the notion and canvas are their own companies, but they are sister companies are part of an affiliate of a closed ecosystem for Hyundai. So

 
Anda Gansca 

that's very unique to Hyundai, right. It's

 
Angela Zepeda 

extremely unique. Yeah. And it actually works really, really well because they are very much the extension. I think, and we could talk about this with a probably another question but I do believe that creativity and coming up with conceptual ideas, needs to have its own home. I don't think it would be a good home to put that within hundred as wonderful as it is, but I love it that it's separate, but it's connected. And I think that's how the data also feels to me too. We there's a data science team that's within ocean, but they're very connected to what we do every day that the pieces are coming closer and closer together. And I would also say within Hyundai, because we have people who are doing parts and service owner loyalty, parts and service, these were very siloed for a long time, no longer are starting to come together, do more enterprise share, and we do more collective data mining together to come up with one plan for all of us to achieve. And I think all of that is informing what we do and data definitely helps inform what we do creatively. And it and it is something that we take very seriously, it's a lot of money that we have to spend very right. And so data has to help us inform everything from, you know, a big TV spot that goes on Super Bowl down to what we doing social to targeted audiences.

 
Anda Gansca 

Well, I think another testimony to how close the agency and the company is the fact that you worked at a notion before taking over a CMO of Hyundai. So there you go. Yes, exactly. So I want I want someone else on the panel to disagree with the idea that the agency and the data needs to sit outside of the brand. Raja Stephanie, what do you think? Because it my next question was going to be how do you work with your agencies? Do you even work with agencies, how much of it is about internally outside the trend? Everyone's talking about the trend of in housing thoughts?

 
Stephanie Buscemi 

I think it's it really depended this dependent on on what it is that you're bringing to to your customer to your consumer and what works best for your organization. I can tell you for Salesforce, we've had a healthy debate on this topic for years. We have a hybrid model, where we have an in house creative team, but we also have a network of agencies that we use. And, you know, our most recent awareness campaign was done internally, but not without looking at also And tapping into our external agencies. Sometimes it makes better sense for us to use external agencies, sometimes the internal, what I think is the most important part of it, whether it's in house or not, is Do not be willing to abstract yourself away from your customers and consumers. I do see some names and where to be a little bit controversial. I have seen some instances where people put too much to the agency and I'm like, you've really lost you're not in touch with your consumer and your customer. And so people may have heard us we call them trailblazers, but those are, those are. Those are customers who are co creating with us. They're not just co creating our products. They are actually co creating our marketing content with us. They have the best ideas. And so to me, bringing them in the room, whether it's the internal team or the external team has worked best for us.

 
Anda Gansca 

What I've also noticed at Salesforce I think is really great is that you work directly with creative partners, different types of creative partners, media companies, etc. but very directly, oftentimes, you'll see that everything happens through an agency, but you guys forged your own direct relationships. Right?

 
Stephanie Buscemi 

Yeah, I think it's, it's the same principle of keep your customer close to you. We feel the same way, in the way we work and engage with agencies and, you know, we we've always brought them really close, I can say our co CEO, Mark, you know, if we are working with someone external, they'll be invited into a meeting. I mean, a very private, confidential setting. We, they're not briefed, they're brought in, they're there. They can be participating right in the discussion because I, you know, I think everyone kind of believes it's, you know, are you setting them up to do great work for you and be successful if they're not fully immersed and steeped in your business and your customers? You're not going to get something great out of it. Yep.

 
Raja Rajamannar 

From my point of view, it's a little contrary in that sense.

 
Anda Gansca 

Let's go

 
Raja Rajamannar 

see, first and foremost, to Stephanie's point, which I totally agree with, you cannot have one standard answer for all the companies. It depends on the context of your company, right? But there are some principles that you have to understand. The principle is why do you want to have an agency, you want them to really create magic for you. If you are able to create it in house, that's great. But in house people are only exposed to your little microcosm. So I always look at an external partner to bring a different perspective. And we have had lots of dialogues, but we should in house is there any point of in the house in some parts of it, etc. I'm a firm believer that when creativity and the act of creation is residing with an agency who is dealing with a multiplicity of clients, they're constantly on their feet in terms of trying to come up with the concepts Cross industry, fertilization of ideas and a whole bunch of things. And if you know how to inspire your agency work with them together, it's not creativity for creativity sake, but how strong linkages between creativity and your business results, you can really create magic. That doesn't happen when you're trying to have the three bids and constantly keep the spot on top of the agency's head to say, Okay, now we're going to RFP, we're going to do this, we're going to do that don't give them the existential threats.

 
Anda Gansca 

There has to last like yes, yes, yes, yes.

 
Raja Rajamannar 

There has to be a longevity of partnership between the agency and the client. They're an extended part of your company like and they have to sit in all your strategic meetings, right. So they understand where what your aspirations are, they understand your constraints. They understand the boundaries, they understand the opportunities and the keep coming with ideas. And I feel very blessed with the kind of partnership that we have with McCann for the last 22 years now. And so it's going pretty strong, and every single We seem to be hitting the ball out of the park. And the proof of the pudding is when with our relatively modest budgets, we are bigger brand than our budgets actually are. And probably that's what every marketer will say, myself but our budgets are much much smaller than any of my competitors out there. And still this year 2019 Interbrand has rated as as the fastest growing brand across all categories, brand z, we have improved our ranking from 87 to 12. In and in the United States, we are at number eight, so multi and brand asset valuator if you say be a study after study, whether it as a strength of the brand, or winning new business and keeping old business and growing old business, or building moats around the company from a competitive differentiation on a sustainable basis, the agencies have vital partner and and that so that's my philosophy. So I say, you guys, you keep partnering with us and many times also it gives a lot of flexibility. If you At 10 people, internally, it's a humongous action. Because we are a small company, we don't want to proliferate people. But as the agency, it's much easier when you have that level of distance, they can hire whoever they want, because you're paying on a variable cost as opposed to incurring capital, working capital expense in that sense within the company, God in the expenses. So that's why I would look at it in my scenario. quick

 
Anda Gansca 

Follow up question, though, because you talked about the creative agency, but what about the data? What where do you believe data should be collected and held and managed and who should own it?

 
Raja Rajamannar 

Data is like your feel it's like, you absolutely have to have it in house. There's no question about it to me. But the utilization of the data, you can always seek help from a multiplicity of external partners. So for me data is like a proprietary protocol asset that we have guard. Okay, that's on the data side, medium, same thing outside for the creative agency, and I I don't believe in having a programmatic inside the company, because it will save a few chips. But the reality is, I think, let people outside the company specialized in what they do, and let's leverage them totally. And inside the company, let's be great general managers. Let's know how to handle internal and external resources, and connect the dots between marketing business, I think the focus has been much more different for the marketer of tomorrow.

 
Anda Gansca 

So let's switch gears a little bit into storytelling. I want first to know if you guys agree or disagree with my argument that ccpa will only mean that we're going to be creating more high quality content because we just need better value exchanges with customers. Does that mean that we're going to go through I don't want to call it a content revolution, but a high increase in the volume and the quality of the content that we're going to see coming out of brands?

 
Raja Rajamannar 

So firstly, I think I would reframe the question a little Little bit differently, right? The thing is today, advertising is getting to be crazy everyone offers now, three to 5000 messages bombarded at consumers every single day, humanly impossible. And people are tuning off number one number two ad blocks. And from what I heard, and I was telling my team to research and get back to me with the right numbers, because they look so outrageous 52% of all people have actually installed add blog software on their devices, I hope it is wrong information. But if that data is right, that marketers are absolutely in trouble, how do we reach those people? And if you look at the ad free space that is going up, whether does Netflix or Hulu or YouTube, right and all these guys, one and a half billion hours of viewing every single week, in an ad free environment.

 
Anda Gansca 

I would argue all of them are going to go at full relatively quickly. But anyway,

 
Raja Rajamannar 

but the key thing is in that kind of environment. I want to really rethink entire model is advertising the way to go forward at all. And if consumer as a consumer again, not as a marketer, but as a consumer when I look at it I hate ads. I hate interruption when I'm watching a nice video whether it is an animal video which is my favorites by the way out of anything else suddenly there's an interruption and some stupid ad I don't care about comes in front of me. It's very

 
Anda Gansca 

have you ever gotten a MasterCard and

 
Anda Gansca 

have you ever gotten a MasterCard it interrupting your

 
Raja Rajamannar 

I would not like it. Absolutely animals take precedence. But on a serious note, the key thing is, we have to understand how should we give outstanding seamless frictionless consumer experience. And if it is interrupting and butting in the hit you and they're telling you and they're showing it in numbers, you have to recognize and you cannot hold on to the old model of advertising lead marketing into the future. So the whole idea for us is to move into a different sphere of experiences, curate and create experience. So we call it story making make stories for consumers as opposed to storytelling, right? So give consumers experiences that are truly memorable for them. They then tell their stories, we put our money to amplify those stories in their environment where therefore people don't block them off the road, add blocks in your social network, right? So that's how the whole thing goes. And I feel that should be the route and in doing so, if your content is not superb, obviously, people will not be engaged with your brand and the experiences they're not superior. So it has nothing to do with the law, as far as I see. Because the law is only between a brand and the consumer. And what I'm talking about is this should all be about the consumer and the consumer. And all we are doing is enabling through platforms at scale and economically so experiences that money cannot buy but you can get them only because you have a MasterCard. I know

 
Anda Gansca 

how you started with hating ads and up with a bit of an ad.

 
Angela Zepeda 

It was a very high quality ad. I think I totally agree. And for us, developing high quality content, wherever we engage with our consumers is really paramount. I think it's a testimony to the brand that we want to build for Hyundai. In South Korea, Hyundai is the number one brand for car manufacturer. That's not the case here in the US, we only have 5% market share. So when we engage with our consumers, we don't want to disrupt we want to build a relationship with them. People can hold on to a car for five to seven years. That's a long journey. And a long time we could have a communication with someone before they're really even ready to buy. So wherever we're finding those people and trying to engage with them in with content that is relevant, that is emotional, that taps into a human truth that they also resonate with, we found is been one of the best ways for us to To engage with them, even when we do, head to head videos, so to speak, where we're doing a little more lead generation and the digital space, we always wrap it with an emotional story first, just to go out there to just tell them about our product and how it may be better in these categories or features than our competitors. They don't work as well. So we really know that emotionally engaging high quality content, wherever it is within the consumer journey is paramount to building the holistic brands. So for us, it's very important.

 
Anda Gansca 

I think it's a big transition from transactional to agree yes to the value exchange, whatever that means. It could be emotional, it could be something of a different type of

 
Angela Zepeda 

Yeah, even a transaction is very emotional. So why don't we put it in the same context by when I just want to capture your attention about who I am as a brand, the transaction for the customer, a car could be one of the most expensive things that a person could buy. So I think the transaction communication is equally as important at that point.

 
Stephanie Buscemi 

One of the things that we're seeing, we do our annual state of consumer report is, you know, really a direction amongst consumers that just being your product and service won't be enough anymore. People want to know what you're really all about what what do you value? Many of you may have heard our co CEO speak here yesterday, Marc Benioff, and he talks about businesses the greatest platform for change. I really believe you have to have permission, on the ways that you emotionally connect with people. It has to be authentic. And so I've seen places where people are doing things out in the market that are emotional connections, but they feel like random acts of emotion versus what is this company really about beyond your core products and services, values, drive value, what are you about, and then are all of those stories, really in service and tie back? anchor back to those values of the company. And I think that gives a credibility, I do have a little bit of a mixed. I'll give an example right now you can open any publication or look at anything. And I feel like there's a lot of trust washing right now. We have a trust crisis happening out there right now particularly in tech, and we've all seen instances of it. And I cringe when I see people putting the words trust in ads, and then doing stock photography, images of people creating trusting moments, and I'm like, initially says to you, you can trust me, I'm like, I'm out of here. I don't trust demos and and and you know, and so I think, pardon me, the human connection is so critical. But what what is it you're engaging on? Is it a shared value with that consumer beyond just your products and services and our consumer report 16 Countries thousands of people around the globe 90% said that they felt it was the responsibility of a business to give back to the society in which it operated and do good and 88% indicated they're going to make their decision making and the way they buy their products and services about that moving forward. I think these generations here you know, the gens ears even one is that they expect that and then and then to build on Rogers point.

 
Stephanie Buscemi 

Everyone's like, what are you going to do is ccpa and compliance.

 
Stephanie Buscemi 

We're working on that. But honestly, this is a data sharing and information economy with a generation we can all see that's willing to share a lot of their information for meaningful experiences for a meaningful exchange, a value exchange, and authenticity. And so I don't get it. Do I think that the laws are going to be a bit chaotic for some time to come until we figure out something at the federal level? And yes, but do I think they're going to change our ability? No, I think we have to get marketers CMOS have the best opportunity right now to get out of their department and their function, and really challenge their organization as to what are the values of the organization? Can we demonstrate that and walk the walk? I'm not just going to talk the talk and work, you know, whitewash things with these words. Hopefully, that

 
Raja Rajamannar 

just one quick point to follow up on that. You know, I think all these regulations are coming. And I think it's a knowing of marketers themselves, and of companies themselves, right. So as a consumer, if I'm signing up for any app, any service whatsoever, there is a 20 page long terms and conditions which they know I cannot read, and even Fareed, I cannot comprehend and I don't have the patience to do it. So very meekly, or relatively I Press except that's not fair to the consumer. Right, as a consumer, that's not how you should be treated. And we talk about giving a fantastic experience on one side and doing this kind of a thing. It's not correct. It's all essentially companies doing a See ya, which is not how it should be, on the one hand, and I think we should really as marketers really assert a position based on values. And I loved your statement when I said values lead to value. And that's so true. We need to have those fundamental values, how do we interact with consumers? transparency is going to be very critical. And today, transparency shrouded in 10 pages of terms and conditions is not transparency.

 
Angela Zepeda 

I agree.

 
Anda Gansca 

Quick one, have you ever been in a situation where you've looked at data and it's told you to do something or not to do something and you haven't listened to it? As we think about every day versus data

 
Angela Zepeda 

every day all the time, listened to it or not listened to it

 
Anda Gansca 

will not listen to it? I don't always you've decided to listen to your gut. Or to your team or to your agency?

 
Angela Zepeda 

Yeah, we do that a lot.

 
Anda Gansca 

And is it mainly in the realm of creative decision making

 
Angela Zepeda 

Creative decision making for my experience. In fact, the example that comes to mind is two years ago for Super Bowl, which we do a Super Bowl every year. It's a big deal. We start, I don't know, in May of the previous years thinking about it. And last year's Super Bowl, we didn't have a product to talk about. It wasn't right for timing when it was being launched, which is our new palisade. And so we have a new tool or service for customers called shoppers assurance. We basically took everything we had, and packaged pet Excuse me, I'm losing my voice terrible. day three of CES. We patched it together. So it basically gave transparent pricing. You can do a lot of the purchasing upfront with digital tools. You can do flexible test drive, and we have a 3d 3d worryfree exchange. All of that together is called shoppers assurance. So we wanted to put that in our Super Bowl spot. We're talking about a service isn't really isn't the best place to spend your money when you're supposed to be selling cars. And so it was a risk. And we did it and it is hugely success successful. We have Jason Bateman in the spot with us, it was very funny. And Hyundai got huge brand Halo lift from it just because even if you don't use it, it just said, this brand gets me wanted to break down a barrier. Car shopping and buying is hard. It's complex, it's cumbersome, and people don't like going to the dealership to do that transaction. And this really broke down all those barriers. And so putting that message out on the biggest platform for the year was a really good risk. And we we knew we would be gambling but we really thought in the end it was the right thing to do. And we we did win with that one. So sometimes data can inform maybe which way you need to take the risk.

 
Anda Gansca 

Well, I think you only have date on stuff you've already tried, right? So if you're trying to do something completely new you have to trust your instinct.

 
Angela Zepeda 

Yeah, we test the creative just to see if people like it. And they loved it. I mean, we just had a lot of things going right for it. So that was good. It was more about was that that the right thing to do not to really put a car? Yeah, in the Super Bowl.

 
Angela Zepeda 

This year we'll have a car we're almost thousands of customers getting value out of it that are making and beyond just like, everyone's like, oh, what's the next best product or service to offer beyond personalized recommendations, seeing people use it and really changing the way their their team works on their web properties in terms of using AI to understand images and which images are resonating most being able to be nimble and flexible on copy. Just leveraging AI into every I encourage everyone to really look at the end the business processes that you go through in your marketing organization and challenge yourself because there's there's a role of analytics at every step.

 
Anda Gansca 

Thank you.

 
Angela Zepeda 

And I was just I agree. And I think quickly just to say, more video video video, I think people want to engage with high quality content. And I think video is definitely the place where we will continue to see an escalation of that. Definitely. Cool.

 
Anda Gansca 

Well, thank you all so much for a great conversation.

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