Josh Walker 

Everybody, good afternoon. If you've been with us all day long, you've heard a bunch of different panels. And industry speakers talk about different trends in the sports tech industry. You at the CES sports stage, where if you've been around the rest of Vegas up and down the strip, you've probably seen lots of headsets, lots of devices, lots of new cameras, lots of new televisions. All of this is designed to create more immersive experiences for the fan. And the entire sports industry is focused on these technologies, because they're trying to keep the fans attention longer, so they can monetize those fans in new ways. My panel, which I'm going to take a seat and moderate is that the epicenter of the strategic decisions that need to be made in an era where fans have more choice more control than ever before. When you go on to Netflix when you go on to Disney plus, when you go on to any OTT platform. You can choose to any menu of options when it comes to live sports and entertainment. It's the job of the people I'm about to introduce you to, to make sure they developed something that not only captures your attention, but keeps your attention as long as possible. So with that, I'd like you all to help me welcome my panel. And I'll introduce them all to you in a moment. Guys, please come out.

 
Corey Gottlieb 

Good to see you

 
Josh Walker 

I'm sitting here. Yes, you can't take my seat. Lucky.

 
Josh Walker 

Welcome, guys. All right. So to set the stage, what I want to do is quickly run through some very high level content that many of the people on this stage know very well because they work with the sports Innovation Lab closely. What we're going to do is set the stage and talk to you a little bit about what we call the fluid fan. And the fluid fan is this concept that we're entering a new age of sports that the technology that all of you are exposed to in your own personal lives is changing the way that you experience live entertainment and live sports in particular. These folks have to deal with the constant reality that there's more and more technology coming out. And it's harder and harder to figure out where to plant the flag and make your bets. The fluid fan is really focused on this concept of immersive media. Because as they move through different forms of entertainment, if these folks do a really good job of creating media that allows them to immerse themselves in that entertainment, there's a very good chance that those fans will stick around longer and be able to be monetized in new ways. So I'm going to walk this panel through these questions. And what I want you to do as the audience is not just sit there and be passive, but think about your own businesses, and how you're noticing this concept of fluid fandom where your fans are doing different things, they're moving around your business and new ways to think about how you're trying to adapt to that change, because I'm going to ask each of them to introduce themselves, and really provide some evidence that they see that their customer, their core consumer is changing. So I'll start with you, Corey, to my left, and we'll go down. And what I'd love for you guys to do as you introduce yourselves, give the audience a sense of who you are talking about maybe something that you've noticed in your business at DraftKings or the BUNDESLIGA or Sportradar, or LiveLike or Verizon Media. And really give them a sense of what you're seeing change in your fan base, and a little bit of how you're adapting as well. And we'll go back around and if you don't have enough time to say what you want, we'll do it again.

 
Corey Gottlieb 

Good to see everybody. So I am the SVP of product at DraftKings. I think a lot about our product strategy or product operations and attempt to answer a lot of the questions that you just described. I think the most pointed part of what you said that resonates for us is that we're attempting to reshape the way that we define sports fans. Historically, sports fans have consumed a relatively narrow slice of the overall total of what sports actually looks like. So when I think about my dad, for example, my dad is an average sports fan. He basically consumes two things. He consumes information and live games related to his local teams, and then information and live games related to big national sporting events that rise to the level of relevance for him. So on a Tuesday night, he might watch the Celtics game on a Sunday night, he might watch the Patriots and then maybe he'll watch Monday Night Football, and maybe he'll watch a World Series game or a college bowl game. If you think about that subset of sports, it's actually a tiny slice of the overall pie of sports that are going on the delta between that and the total total sort of amount of content that exists in sports is huge. What we're attempting to capitalize on is that delta, which is that we've got the products between daily fantasy sports and sports betting that can create the same kind of emotional connection that my dad has to that relatively small slice to a much larger slice for our users. So we're seeing our users consumes sports in a multiple from what the average sports fan consumes, because either they're building daily fantasy content, daily fantasy lineups, they are making bets related to sports that really are not related to local sports or big national sporting events, the breadth of their interest is growing dramatically because they have what we call skin in the game, which is that they have a connection by virtue of the bets that they're placing fantasy players, both to live games, to stats to information that they never would have been connected to, by virtue of the products that they're consuming with us. So essentially, what we're seeing is the redefinition of the average sports fan through the lens of skin in the game.

 
Josh Walker 

So we call that new sports fan the fluid fan and Andreas you drank that Kool Aid pretty well. And and what you've what you've done when you talk about that fluid fan is you don't see it the same way most of our our audience does. And I mean that in a positive way. Because what you do is you see it as an opportunity, right? I mean, people talk about the next generation of fan and they're like, they're playing Fortnite. And they're not interested in sports. You've seen it as an opportunity that, hey, I can compete for the NFL fan, I can compete for the NBA fan, I can grow my business by attracting these consumers with better products. You tell the audience a little bit about what you're doing at the Bundesliga to do that.

 
Andreas Heyden 

Great. Hello I'm Andreas. Welcome from outside to work for the Bundesliga that's the highest Football League in in Germany. We are overall the second largest Football League in revenue in the world and the largest seventh largest league overall in the world who's counting?

 
Josh Walker 

But who's counting? Yeah,

 
Andreas Heyden 

But but just, you know, because I think the Bundesliga is not known to anybody and everybody that's why what we are thinking about is how does our business evolve and we're living in a time where We were in a very comfortable situation over the years, our content is exclusive. Our content is the last, the last appointment viewing with life and sports events, but the way how the sport is consumed is changing. And we get our business models changing from every four years collecting checks, to working with our partners together on Media Solutions, to really embrace the next generation fans. We are available with nearly all relevant OTT players in the world, the Europeans once we're going to be on ESPN, in summer when we move away from from Fox, but on top of that we we ask ourself, how does the media consumption change and the big mega trends that we're going to talk about AR artificial engine intelligence. Vertical video is something that we try to prove where we where we go into production. So we've done the first vertical video live production of football match, because we have to ask yourself, over 50% of our video views are done in a vertical usage by offense, and we can't turn back time. So how does a media product have to evolve to satisfy these needs from those fans?

 
Josh Walker 

And when you say vertical for the audience, what what does that mean? Right?

 
Andreas Heyden 

So who knows Instagram? Tik Tok? So we see that many, many video views are done in a vertical way so kids don't rotate their phone, they've watched vertically, and the football game is horizontal. So just cutting pieces out of these horizontal broadcasting to make it viewable in vertical. For us. It doesn't make sense.

 
Josh Walker 

So seems like a trivial thing, but it's a big thing. So

 
Andreas Heyden 

we've set up a full vertical video production where we switch the cameras by by tilted them by not even 90 degrees and tried to learn how does the storytelling have to be when you have only a vertical window into the world to tell a horizontal story? We did cases with AR with 5g in October last year already, you take out your phone, when you're in the stadium and you are 5g, you hold the camera towards the pitch, you press with the head of one of the players you don't know. And in real time you get information, how many shots on goals, what is the current speed that he is running, etc, which is in a current form on a smartphone, but it's going to move to glasses and one day maybe it's going to move to contact lenses but we have to do these kinds of trials and we have to learn how next generation of fans the fluid fat is wants to consume content. And we're doing it right now

 
Josh Walker 

And Brian you at Sportradar don't necessarily always have the front end that user experience layer like Miheer to the fan but you're powering a lot of those that you know partners to do that there's very few people in professional sports media that you guys don't work with. How do you think about what you're seeing from your own data to say, you know, Sportradar needs to be headed this and start anticipating fans are gonna be doing things differently.

 
Brian Joseph 

Yep, yep. So for from our perspective, what we've seen is really an evolution in two different ways. First, the platforms that the fan consumes the sport in. And then second the type of content that they're looking for. And again, to Josh's point, we hear this, you know, second nature through our clients and partners across the board. And when I talk about platforms, it's, it's no longer a newspaper, or a website or even a mobile app, you can get sports information just about anywhere. Now I have a big buyer voice for example. So you can ask a voice platform for something related to the league or team or sport that you're looking to consume. So the the fragmentation of the platforms that you can actually access sport is something that's fundamentally changed our business and the use cases that we designed for and and think about from a product perspective. And then secondly, the content. From a sports data and insights standpoint, it used to be about reporting what happened So past tense, what just happened on the ice pitch or whatever else it might be. Right now we're seeing a big transition into why it happened. And what we consider to be smart content about the game or the match or whatever else. It just happened, taking that next step, and providing deeper storytelling and context around the why. And courtesy of the rollout of bedding, where we see this going in fairly short order is around predictive and what will happen next, and being able to engage a sports fan or consumer in real time with information and content and stories that can check all three of those boxes over the course of the game.

 
Josh Walker 

So those of you who don't know what Sportradar does, I'm going to oversimplify it. So Brian, forgive me. There's box score data, right the data about the performance in the game, and they've been collecting that for years. And what Brian's mentioning is that the whole trend has been to be collecting more and more types of data other than the box score data, it could be player tracking data, could be predictive analytics things that help you really understand what's happening in the game, and even in the future wager on it in the near future. Now you're doing a lot of that. If there's one thing that your clients call you and say, over and over again, what do you what are you hearing most? Is it the voice interface? Is it get gambling? Is it eSports?

 
Brian Joseph 

Yeah, I would say the overland question is how do we differentiate our platform versus the various other options that are available? And what we're having right now or a lot of conversations around personalization? So how do you take that insight or that content derived from the data that we have? So historical data, official live data for play by play betting, player tracking, and the like, and use it to create stories that can apply to different consumers based on the motivation that they have for engaging so? personalization is is really the overarching topic.

 
Josh Walker 

And that's the perfect segue to you Miheer, which is storytelling and the the technology your company's built over the years you started by really having this innovative vision of like letting people sit courtside at a NBA game. And now you're creating all kinds of other new experiences for fans. What have you seen, even in your own business as you've transitioned the products and the platform that you're building? And where do you think you guys are heading next?

 
Miheer Walavalkar 

Yeah, so we, you know, we started our journey as a live streaming virtual reality business. We work with a lot of the broadcaster's rights holders around the world. You know, our goal was always to make it was less about sitting courtside, which maybe some other companies were trying to do, and was more about just being there, but being there with your friends. So, you know, ironically, everyone talks about how virtual reality and the headsets which it's true is an anti social experience. But most people don't watch sports with friends. globally. Let me preface that. I grew up in India I grew up a sports fan in India. I grew up watching La Liga Bundesliga Premier League NBA in India. They were all broadcasted and weird hours, I was not watching it in bars with friends or at home with friends. We actually thought that VR allowed you to do that you with your friends and avatars for six people are watching together talking to each other while watching a game. So are you know the three pillars to our business? It was immersive, which was the richness of the format. Social and interactive. Interactive was you know, I think someone mentioned behind the Iron Man mask, Jarvis, you know, you basically can just see in your room like it's a it's a fan cave, you have stats over here, your highlights over here, you have the live Game Over here, you can pick and choose where you want to go. VR sort of allowed you to do that. Obviously, as time has gone on, you know, I think the hardware has fallen far short of expectations in terms of the form factor. So we pretty early on realized that we had to be on we had to be with more people like it couldn't just be like 20,000 people watching a game and we started creating experiences that were Without headsets So, you know, just a simple phone. We call it the magic window experience, but it's still with friends and with interactive stats so a different way of watching than what you get on a regular mobile phone. And that journey has sort of evolved into today where you know as most of the people over here have talked about personalization, younger fans are watching content are used to getting their content not content necessarily are used to different type of experiences you know, there are two generation there the gaming generation they you know, it's not even about the content as much as it's about the community and watching with people or sometimes it's people you know, sometimes people meet people in these experiences when my my brother's a gamer PlayStation he's talking to random people in the middle of the night in the in Australia, like who you talking to he's like always just a friend that I made by playing this game. So we you know, in the world of sports there is in a sports is pretty much a monopoly, its exclusive rights. There's lack of there's a lack of desire constantly innovate but also there's a lack of capability to do so. And what we've been trying to do is sort of be the best friend for the product and the dev teams in the in these companies we like let us try to bring these experiences that Twitch style experiences the HQ trivia style experiences to your apps rather than having standalone disparate experiences with the fragment and user journey no one knows where to go you're already confused by by where Alabama is playing is it on SEC network is on

 
Josh Walker 

I understand you had to scale back because maybe the market wasn't ready but do you feel like you saw enough to know that you are wrong like that like like you know where you just to earlier we wrong like the Iron Man mask that Brian talks about all the time is coming? Because was Alex told me backstage it was she was doing

 
Alex Wallace 

it is we didn't have to scale back. We're still pushing on the r&d front. As far as virtual reality is concerned. We're working with a couple of big broadcasters can't really name them on but we are focusing more on the video quality because what happened was mostly The focus in VR was about the video. And there are 8K TV ads out there right now on the strip right now, you're if you're comparing video quality to a TV experience, you're never going to catch up to it because TV is growing as well. You have to give something different that you don't get with TV. And that's what our focus was always it was the social experience it was watching with friends. Play you know, like beat Sabre is one of the most popular VR games because they're using controllers to do cool stuff. Can you do that when you're watching a game? Can you throw something at the screen because you're pissed off at the referee or whatever. Those are the kind of experiences that we want to do and in a good way, our business has shifted from doing events based stuff like we did the World Cup we did the Super Bowl, we did the Champions League, we pretty much conquered every major life event. last five seconds was pretty awesome, right? And, and yet, we realized that there was no one there after the event was over. today. It's more we're working with the partners, we're focusing on the r&d focusing on the experience quality rather than just the video. Quality. At the same time, we have a new product in the market which is integrated into mobile and web, which goes to all millions of viewers and creates twitch style experiences in the regular viewing experience in which connects the dots between all the stats that these guys are creating. You know, fantasy feeds that DraftKings is creating, can these experiences be interconnected somehow, so that the fracking user journey is not completely fragmented? In the world of sports, you're never going to have a universal fan ID the sports landscape will just never allow that to happen. But can there be some persistence so that users get rewarded for their actions, even if it's within the same experience?

 
Josh Walker 

Well, I think that's also a really nice segue to the person on the stage. I'm guessing with the largest potential audience to reach here Alex, you have many different types of content and media assets under your umbrella. How do you take this concept of the fluid fan within Verizon's world Verizon Media and keep them moving from Sports to news to other forms of entertainment, and not lose them to some other platform.

 

Alex Wallace 

So a couple things, first of all, I mean, I've been in media for 25 years, and I think making sure you're always going where the fan is. I mean, you use the fan used to come to you and you now have to go to the fans. So that's just kind of change table stakes go where they are not wait for them to come to you. But one thing you know, I can

 
Josh Walker 

Can I pause you on that? Because that's a really interesting point. So what does that mean?

 

Alex Wallace 

Your phone, they're in their subway there, no one goes and sits I used to run nightly news shows. No one ever watched no one's home at 6:30. So we started thinking about what does that mean at 4:30 in the afternoon? What does that mean, in the middle of the night, I still want to tell you the same thing. I just need to go where you are. And I need to do the content in the context of your context, not my context. So I think a couple things one, the fan experience and the consumer experience has just dramatically changed in all types of media. My expectation Is that my content is immersive, interactive, that that there is some AR filter to it when I was watching a football game on Saturday night and I was like thinking, honestly, I it was the football was very good. But there was nothing around the football and I was thinking like, what, what's my interaction with this? Why am I not? And I had my phone up. And I was googling all these things about the quarterback and running back. And I was thinking like, That's crazy. Like, that is how I Why am I watching a game in a way that does not speak to how I want to watch the game. Now, the person next to me may have been very happy just watching the game. But that's not how I wanted to watch it. So a couple things know me as a fan and create the experience for me. And that is an expectation my kids will not watch something that is not created in the experience that they expect. And they absolutely expect to interact and they expect some kind of immersive content. And so, you know, that's why I've been obsessed with this idea that we'll all move to glasses because I think your phone is very antisocial. And so it's really obnoxious. I'm on Saturday night. I'm like trying to have a nice glass of wine with my friends. And husband and I'm on my phone checking like when How old is Tom Brady and why does he keep throwing passes that people don't catch that it should be my glasses that should be a no those are knowable facts and you should know me that I think that layer of data as I'm watching now I can choose to turn it on or off my my glasses. But there are and that's why I think VR has not taken off because as I always say, I'm probably not as germane in the sports world but it's bad for my hair whenever I put on that ugly headset. But I do think as glasses become very small and I think Apple is going to be probably the first one they're coming out in the next couple years but I just saw Panasonic one from CES that is tiny now. You know, I want to watch a sports game or a tennis match with data. That's just how I consume everything right now you don't consume a single screen experience you consume a multi screen experience and your phone is it is not sociable. And it is you know, it's not it's not happening in the That I want it to happen.

 
Josh Walker 

But as a business leader, now you've got a vision for what you think is going to happen. What types of things do you pressure your team to create to do to act differently to get closer to that reality?

 
Alex Wallace 

So I mean, I would just start with like, what is the fan expect? And then I would go build it for them. And that's how we're thinking about it. Like, I would take what as a 15 year old football fan want, how do they expect to watch a game and then let's go build that experience for them.

 
Josh Walker 

So our thesis at the sports Innovation Lab is that that 15 year old wants to do all the different things you said, they're not one type of fan, correct, right, the fluid fan, that and this is a really interesting point, because it's the way we talk with all of our clients and things. It's like, we've been so focused on demographics, right? So 35 year old man, he wants to bet, watch the cheerleaders and blah, blah, blah, right? There's just like this mindset that we're like, well, we got him beer, I'd send it to him. He's good. The idea that we're all empowered to change the way we want to view, put something on, turn it off, whatever be social. I'm really curious as to how you guys are making that actionable within your businesses. So What are you doing to push your product teams or think about your partnerships that start acting differently? Because we're talking to talk, right? Give me something tangible that says, we did this differently in 2019 than we've done before. Or we know we're going to do this differently in 2020 because we expect this type of behavior from the fans to want to do the same route. Well, our show you cool going and we'll come back this way. I feel like it took forever to get you to

 
Alex Wallace 

start very patient. Actually, that's not true, I'm not. Personalization. I mean, know your fan like to me, I expect you to know me and we were talking about Tik Tok. Tik Tok, you put your on Tik Tok for 20 minutes, they get to know you. I mean, I expect to be able to watch the game the way I want to watch it, and you may watch it differently, and you may watch it differently and whether I want to watch it. You know, I used to run TV shows where you would sit in control and there'd be 20 cameras coming in. And you'd say take that take that take that. The reality is the fan should be able to decide what camera they're watching a game from. The fans should be able to decide what player they want to fall. I

 
Josh Walker 

agree with you and I agree with everything you guys have said. What freaks me out? is like, as a product designer, how do you accommodate all those different types of fandom, you have to have somewhere in Verizon Media, a whiteboard or a priority list that says, look, we can't do this all we're gonna, we're gonna play some bets here.

 
Alex Wallace 

Some of it is algorithm I mean, look, a lot of this is gonna be solved algorithmically. And I'll hand it over, but we're already making we're making decisions already for the fan and how we present it to them. Now, the question is, how much further back? Can you move the decision and how much more empowerment? Can you give the fan?

 
Josh Walker 

Yeah, me here, guys planting the flag and 2020 saying, Yeah, we're gonna put our bet on this. No, I mean, I mean, we are actually the We Are The one tech company that is providing the services to the the rest of the panelists. So that is actually entirely what we're trying to do is we've conducted a lot of user tests, trying to understand what different things people want. We're also pragmatic, right, we have to know it doesn't matter whether my product can do 25 different things if the person on the other side of the table has to integrate it. It doesn't have the capacity to integrated and has to like its walk, crawl run. I mean, simple, simple, simple example. Yeah. gamification. Yeah. You see games today and you see gamification at all different levels, quests and milestones, and loot boxes and all that kind of stuff. In the world of sports, people don't even know what's points and badges. So what we're doing is in our product, right now, we're creating just simple points, badges and leaderboards. You against yourself, you against yourself through the whole season, and you against the rest of the people. That's it. Let's start with that. And then in 2021 22, so to your question about how our product team decides to prioritize. That's how we decide to prioritize because we, unfortunately for us, we have to know what the clients capacity is, and work within that. And also as a b2b company, different clients are going to want different it's kind of funny to me. Every client wants their own, like, Oh, well, if these guys have the same experience, and I like then I have the same experience I'm like, but you have different content, like, how else are you differentiating? How is your TV experience differentiated today, it's the same content you're putting out there. But when it comes to innovation, everyone wants their own custom solutions. And like that's basically just pushing every startup in the world to become an agency. And that's not a good business to be in. Everyone wants to be a platform, you end up being an agency. So we have sort of tried to become a little bit more pragmatic and be more of a API driven business rather than here's a white label product, take it or leave it. There's a set of capabilities, which ones do you want to use today and tomorrow, and and and

 
Brian Joseph 

Can I build on that quickly, because crawl, walk run is something that we find ourselves having conversations around a lot. And if you look at the crawl as that one too many production, I think we're sitting squarely in kind of early stages of a walk type phase where there are media companies out there that are looking at creating different options. It's not one to one personalization, but they're starting to provide options to their consumer to consume the game. Maybe slightly different from the one to all broadcast. And ESPN is actually a leader in this. If you look next week for the college football playoff national championship, they'll have a range of different streams available, whether it's the the main broadcast, a Coach's Corner, whatever else it might be, I think this inner minute walk step of options is what will start to move towards that personalization. Amazon's another good example with Thursday Night Football where the they'll take the fox broadcast, but then they'll also offer the all female booth with Hannah Storm and Andrea Kremer. And there's also Spanish language broadcast as well as content experiences around it. So this element of options I think, is really going to start to take off over the next couple of years. And then based on that, to your point on understanding who your fan and consumer is, how the consumer engages in those different options will give you a wealth of data to be able to take that next step towards personalization

 
Josh Walker 

And you're spot on. I think the old stream is the way that this industry is sort of going about this right, which is to create that different broadcast that different stream for the different audience with some core assumptions baked into it. But I'm talking about core product here, Andreas, and I'm looking at you because I can think of match attacks, which is this like gamified app for, you know, an experience with the young players, I'm assuming that really want to collect all the cards from tops, right? It's a mobile app, but when I'm in it, I'm not watching a live stream or anything like that. And then I'm thinking about, you have to prioritize that versus your five g experiments where you're doing augmented reality in the same How do you guys begin to make those trade offs? You don't have time to do everything? What where do you place your bets?

 
Andreas Heyden 

We have to take a little bit of cue on our transitional story. We have three levels of we do our planning on first, is rights, rights in what rights are we selling? What rights do we carve out what rights are we not selling and which kind of rights categories to recreate? We have The TV broadcasting rights, but we did decision to collect our own data. So we sell our data to Sportradar and other partners. We have our own TV production and create rights around that. Secondly, it's about people in competences you have to get especially in sport and for the sports colleagues. I'm not from Sports that's why I can say you have to bring people in who have media experience agency experience can be experienced, who have this customer centricity, this fan centricity and bring this into sport and competences. You have to embrace artificial intelligence, heard it this morning and a talk something I really loved was you have to treat AI like a co worker. It's not a technology. It's an enabling for you to create stuff new in a different way. And the third one is data points. If you want any kind of product that you're building in the future, is based either on data from your own content sports can we do per game free points. 6 million data points. And we do it by ourselves. We own the data and we can build products on top of that, but also usage data, you have to learn what the fan really wants. And in these three dimensions we are we measuring and are we doing an AR case versus a fantasy football case, it's really a case by case discussion, which has the highest business value at the end. It's very, very mid to long term oriented. We are in the comfortable situation that sports rights are sold for four or five years in America longer. So you can give yourself the time but you have to do something and you have to progress and you have to listen to the fan. You have to build product you have to learn. And then you have to do it all again from the beginning.

 
Josh Walker 

And Corey, everybody would say oh DraftKings. They just interested in people coming in and wagering on the games. But you guys have dabbled and you've had different periods of time where you've looked at actually having a media player in your system and things like that. Where are you guys in this in the thinking around creating an immersive media experience? next to my friend fantasy football games are the other sorts of products that you're trying to cross.

 
Corey Gottlieb 

Yeah, we've seen that there's clearly a relationship between people consuming content and people interacting on our platforms. We've worked to integrate things like video and statistics, like live streaming into our products such that there really is a seamless relationship between building a fantasy lineup or making a bet and consuming the content that makes me more likely to do those things to take those actions. It's a catalyst for sure. But the thing I want to come back to to because I think it's important that you mentioned this notion of core product. We can spend a ton of time up here talking about the wealth of innovation that is attack this industry. And there's a ton of it, right? Between VR and wearables, and so much data, there's an incredible race to be the most innovative company. One of the things that we've learned is that none of that stuff really matters. If a user can't sign up in a way that's frictionless can't get money in and out of their account in a way that frictionless can't come into a product and have an intuitive experience that doesn't immediately overwhelm them. You So much of the the notion of the options that our users has comes without a translation layer that makes it consumable for them. So we've placed a huge effort, especially as we become a multi product company on really honing in on what are the things that are going to keep people from leaving our products? What creates a frictionless experience? I think one of the things that that's most important for us and a couple of these guys talked about it is fluidity and an interconnected experience. So we started as this monolithic company at DraftKings where we were a daily fantasy product. And we had one user in mind in the last year that has exploded to look like a totally different multi product thing. With the advent of sports, gambling and online sports betting, we've had to completely shift how we think about interconnectivity to build a product that has things like Single Sign On and an integrated wallet and a universal user profile. And that's connected to a centralized data warehouse that looks at all of our users across a single profile and understands what they want from the perspective of universal personalization across product. The notion of interconnectivity and fluidity Is it the Part of the way that we think about core product experience, it's not to say that all of this innovation isn't super critical for how we differentiate over time. But there is this notion of harkening back to your roots, doubling down on the things that are super important from the perspective of product values.

 
Josh Walker 

You know, I knew I was gonna have a problem with all of you guys, because your core operators and you have to get that really hard stuff. The point I'm trying to drive you all to is to think about why we can even do the video chat right now with a live in a sports game. And we all say that immersive media is social, interactive, and things like that. What I what I struggle with, and what I struggle with a lot when we talk to the industry is where they feel like the most momentum is in that interactivity. And I wanted to we've got 10 minutes left. I'm really trying to get you guys to say something that you've learned from watching your own consumers that say, I think this is honestly in the next year or two. The first type of thing that's really going to take off when people are watching live sports when it comes to immersive media. Is that too broad? Is that too big for you guys to kind of like put put a stake in the ground and say, Look, we've talked about VR, we've talked about AR, we've talked about mixed reality. We've talked about it. Advanced Analytics, talked about watch parties, right? The idea that the same way we can FaceTime we can bring together our friends and all watch the same game. I respect each of your opinions on this, because I think it's the entire industry is looking for a little bit of a bellwether on Where's immersive media going next. So do you want to just take it this way? And we'll try to wrap it up?

 
Corey Gottlieb 

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think it comes back to the notion that I described earlier of the redefined sports fan and this concept of skin in the game, which is that we've seen that folks who have either fantasy lineups or bets tied to games are so much more likely to be constantly checking their phones to be immersed in the game to be watching more sports consuming across a broader landscape. For us, that means building products that are both intuitive enough for them to understand That work at the speed of the game, but that also sort of are at the right pace of the way that technology is evolving. So, you know, for us, for example, we've started to build in game fantasy products, we started to invest much more heavily in in game sports betting products. The world is evolving in such a way that we're going to need to have interactive experiences that sit right next to you as you're watching a live game. We've certainly started to invest in that area and we see that it's a huge area of growth are

 
Josh Walker 

totally embedded, not a second screen experience mobile first you think they're going to be making prop bets and doing other things right there.

 
Corey Gottlieb 

We think they're absolutely going to I mean, we see that our users are you know, for I'll give you an example. So an average DraftKings user who builds a lineup is significantly more likely, I think, I think 64% of our users who have built a lineup come back to their phone at least six times or more over the course of a live game. That's a telling statistic right. In advance of the game we see that an average user who builds an NFL daily daily fantasy lineup on Draft Kings spends 32 minutes researching to build that lineup. I think about what 32 minutes looks like in the Course of media consumption, that is a massive amount of time to spend with the product. So we're really confident based on those statistics that we've got a sweet spot, which is users sitting and both doing the research in advance of live games, and then interacting with products that allow them to engage while the live game is going on.

 
Josh Walker 

Yeah, it was certainly part of our pre call to set up this panel to talk about immersive media being most valuable for before, during or after the game. Andreas, where do you guys feel like you're going to, you know, really kind of hone in? Is it going to be in the stadium? Is it going to be before the game?

 
Andreas Heyden 

It's about accessibility and personalization? Yeah. On the one hand side accessibility in the broad variety of fans ever get in touch with the 17 year old Thai boy on the $100 iPhone who wants to know who Thomas Miller is? We have to be able to answer that question. For the vivat fan avid fan who loves our sport, we need to have push notifications that are faster than the TV signal, because he may be on Tick Tock and maybe missing a goal of his favorite game. So to think about all these different layers of country assumption within the rights that we are having to go to the most important channels and be as accessible as problem as possible with the additional problem. We speak German, nobody works speaks German. So we always have to find a way through artificial intelligence, natural language processing, to build up a to make our content accessible from Bahasa to Portuguese, to Spanish to English. I think this is one one part to really embrace the fan. The fan has to has to be able to feel that there is a closeness to you. Secondly, personalization. We truly don't believe that fans want to choose what they want to watch. They want to watch and you have to you have to learn you have to have the tik tok experience for football that after somebody has watched or used an app and web or watch TV, after a couple of minutes you have to learn is he more violent or a Dortmund fan? Does he love a player? Does he just watch Latin American players or just Japanese players etc. And this seamless personalization across all possible channels. This is something that we're investing heavily in.

 
Josh Walker 

You mentioned a really important point that sometimes gets lost because we, in the sports industry focused so much on North American sports league is accessibility globally, we're at CES global show is so important. So between the two of you, Corey and Andreas, you guys mentioned, ease of use single sign on, and accessibility, both very hard technical challenges, but you reach a much broader audience if you can crack that code. Brian?

 
Brian Joseph 

yeah, from from our standpoint, particularly here in the US what, what we're really excited about is the urgency of media and betting and what betting will drive the change in technology and how it's how the game. And what I mean by that is the demands that Alex laid out as a consumer, relevant to me interactive, everything that we've been talking about, building that single destination for a sports fan where you can watch the game, you can place bets, you can get the editorial content, video content, relevant news and information for yourself in a single destination right now, you wouldn't need, you know, multiple apps on your phone to be able to do that. We like what we're pretty excited about is the, again, those consumer demands, along with the rollout of bedding and what that could force and drive companies to do to try and capture that time and attention of that fan. And I think the result is going to be a complete kind of redefining of what sports media actually is. Maybe sports Innovation Lab Can, can work on that one, because what we're going to have at the end of the day is a range of different companies whether that will fit into a clearly defined box, like is DraftKings, a betting operator, are they a media company or insert company here? Everyone's competing for that time and attention. The only thing that really varies is how they monetize. So that convergence is what we're really excited about and things going to fundamentally change.

 
Josh Walker 

Yeah. You guys are gonna all have new kinds of partnerships and new types of competitors going forward. Miheer is the question. I don't know. You got three minutes left and share some of that time with Alex. So why don't you tell us? Yeah,

 
Miheer Walavalkar 

I think from my perspective right now, the twitch ification of sports viewing i think is going to be it might look different in the world of sports, because sports comes with its own unique challenges, synchronous synchronization, spoilers, concurrency, all of these things are things that other content properties don't have to worry about. But the whole idea of which a vacation, which you know, it sort of touches on everything that is being spoken up over here, you know,

 
Josh Walker 

if I can if I can nail you down on one of three things in 2020, social, mobile, or linear where's the biggest opportunity for live link? I know you need to be everywhere but like, Well, no, no,

 
Miheer Walavalkar 

we don't have to be on linear, where we want to be social on mobile, social arm

 
Josh Walker  

right. Ok Alex, we'll wrap up with you. But give us a sense of where you want to push your team in 2020 to create those new glasses that you have

 
Alex Wallace 

to AR is table stakes, expectation, and then gaming and betting, because that's just a very easy way to interact with sports. So I think of them interchangeably. You can game it can be, you know, trivia HQ, it's, you know, people want to test themselves, but it can also be betting.

 
Josh Walker 

And when you guys did a deal recently with MGM was the AR experience in your minds when you did that, or you were just trying to have the table stakes sort of locked down so that you had to play in that game.

 
Alex Wallace 

table stakes mean, we want to be where the fan is, and so, but how we bring those two together is what we're going to be thinking about.

 
Josh Walker 

So we're going to wrap up, what I'll do is I'll try to summarize basically how immersive media is going to change in terms of what the sports Innovation Lab is looking at. We had a diverse panel here because they bring together very different perspectives on The way that they've been innovating in this space. I mentioned Alex has a huge platform of media and content, but also a baked in audience with Verizon media, Yahoo, and a lot of the assets that they built out of AOL. So there's a huge opportunity for them to innovate there. Here has been building this VR experience where you could sit on this courtside and really have that in person experience with lots of different types of sensory perspective as a fan. And I think that that background, moving into a space where he's going to focus on social and mobile is going to be really, I think, interesting evolution for live like as a company, and sport radar. Honestly, if you look up the company, you probably haven't heard of them because they're a b2b company. But they're behind literally every sports experience that you are watching and their ability because they've been collecting data for so long to predict what you want to watch or predict who you want to Follow as an athlete is going to be critical. And I mentioned a few things very quickly about Bundesliga. I know some of you don't speak German. But if you look at what Andreas this team is doing, it's really innovative from the way that they're structuring their business. We talked about build by partner a lot, these guys have decided to bring a lot of things that are strategic and core to their business in house. And I think that's going to help them make some of the strategic bets they need to and DraftKings is in Boston. So we're a little biased because they're our neighbors. But what they've done recently is announced that they're a public company now so there'll be a little bit more of an understanding of where they're headed as a company going forward. But what we've watched them do over the years, is really create a very wide funnel to bring in fans and then cross sell them a bunch of different gaming opportunities that go well beyond fantasy. So a very interesting company to watch in terms of how they keep fans there, keep them socially interactive. video chat and chat and gaming to keep that audience engaged. So with that, I'm going to thank our panel Please give a round of applause and Thanks, guys.

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