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This is CES Tech Talk. I'm James Kotecki exploring the trends shaping the world's most powerful tech event, CES 2025 in Las Vegas January 7-10. And what would the world's most powerful tech event be without the world's most incredible TV screens? If you've been to CES you know on the Las Vegas show floor you are surrounded by the most advanced entertainment portals on the planet. So what's today's cutting-edge and what's coming next? Let's dive into the future of home entertainment with James Fishler, Senior Vice President and Chief Executive Home Entertainment division at Samsung. James, it's great to have another James on the show. Welcome to CES Tech Talk.
Thanks, James, and great to be here.
Let's start with a quick trip to the future. It's 2030, I'm done with my work, I'm home, I'm relaxed, I'm ready to be entertained. I go into my living room, what's in there? What am I using? What does it look like?
All right. I love this question. At Samsung, we like to think that the TV is the central hub of your home. The vision for a home entertainment experience, from my standpoint, in the future is a setup that's even more customizable, and intelligent, and intuitive than it is today. It responds to your preferences or routines. And it works for you wherever, however, whenever you want it to. Inside or outside or on the ceiling. And it takes the guesswork out of your day-to-day. As I think about 2030, only six years away ... I'll take a step back. So you're at work and you hop in your car. In your car is a interactive dashboard of traffic and things like that. And either the car knows that you want to go home, because you do that every day, and it's intelligent, and AI has made that recommendation, or you say, "Hey, Bixby, I'm heading home." And your map or Waze shows up. When you do that your car is now connected to your home in the future. And your AC sets itself at the appropriate temperature that it has learned over time from you.
As you pull into your driveway, of course, your house knows that it's you, and your garage door opens, your lawn lights come on, whatever other things you normally do. Ballie, which is our personal assistant robot that we introduced last year at CES, greets you at the door and follows you into the kitchen because it knows you're going to make dinner. And as it follows you into the kitchen maybe it projects the remaining minutes of the Monday Night Football game on any surface alongside the recipe that you're going to cook for dinner.
And can we pause here as we're making dinner and just describe what the robot actually looks like? Are we talking about a humanoid, a little guy with wheels? What does this robot look?
So Ballie is, I would say, a round ball about 28 inches in circumference, maybe a little bit more. A couple of projectors built-in, AI. Can use as a projector or display device, a personal assistant. A friend, for me, because I don't have many. And really just to enhance your life in a home setting,
I can't believe that that's true about the friend thing. But the robot thing is very interesting. Were you at all inspired by BB-8? Do you get that a lot? From the BB-8 character from Star Wars.
It's interesting. I've been in this industry for 30 years and I don't know if movies inspire technology and innovation or if it's the other way around. But, certainly, similar devices that you've seen in any sci-Fi for sure. And we're in 2030 so maybe it is a different form factor as well.
Okay. So I'm in the kitchen now with my beautiful robot orb projecting the football highlights of last night and what happens next?
Then you finish eating and you head into the living room. And your TV that was off now turns on because it recognizes someone's in the room. But it also recognizes that it's James, and so it knows what settings you like at night. And because everything's connected, the lights turned down, the blinds closed, things like that ... That today most people maybe press a button or manually do. And then the TV asks you, "Hey, James, do you want to keep watching the game that Ballie was showing you or would you prefer a movie tonight?" And James, maybe you say, "Yeah, surprise me with an action comedy like Happy Gilmore seven." Again, we're in 2030 so I'm sure there's more to come.
Adam Sandler's been busy so that makes sense.
Or maybe the TV says, "Hey, Sally, a family member, watched this recently, do you want to watch it so you guys can talk about it?" Or your classic '80s film. And, of course, it upscales it because it's AI and makes it an amazing experience. Your soundbar calibrates based on what you're watching, right? No longer is it movie or music but it's calibrated specifically to the TV you're using as well as the content you're watching. You watch the rest of the movie or show. Then the movie wraps, and credits roll, and your screen automatically changes modes into maybe art mode as you get ready for bed. James, in reality, I think, Samsung is making strides towards that future today, obviously. Some of those features are available today, some maybe I use my own imagination. But a lot of that technology's in our TVs today. We constantly innovate to deliver unique solutions sometimes before you even recognize that you need them or want them. There's still a ton of work to do but that's how I see life in 2030.
We can imagine screens everywhere. We can imagine, as you said, the robot is projecting things onto services so there's not necessarily a screen but it can just project things onto services. Is the distinction of having one big old TV screen, and maybe we won't even call it a TV screen, or just a screen, in the living room still a meaningful one from the perspective of, I don't know, that's where most of the computing power is that's managing all the other things that we talked about. Or there's just something important and powerful about having that big-screen in the room. I have a screen in my office. I mean, I can imagine putting work onto the living room screen sometimes, taking Zoom calls there. I would do entertainment things on my office computer or in my bedroom or whatever. So there's, obviously, a blend here. There's something about the primacy of the big-screen.
I'll date myself a little bit. There's a difference between a lean-forward experience and a lean-back experience. Web TV, from many, many years ago, I think was the first time everybody realized that. That not everybody wants to do their email in the living room where everybody can see it, right? But during 2019, and 2020, and '21, I think we learned that the technology that existed in our devices could be used for lots of other things. And it went from a nice to have to something you really need. And I see that continuing to evolve. One thing has remained pretty constant for the last 20 or 30 years that I've been in this industry is consumers always want bigger screens. I don't imagine that's going to change. I do think, James, you're right though that it's going to evolve. And the way you and I think about it today, maybe it changes. And hopefully later in our conversation we'll talk about transparent screens and things like that that will certainly change the landscape.
But relative to maybe how TVs are today, there's 17 billion connected devices in the market today, I think, in the US, and the average home has 20 or 25 of them. And it's consistent, the message is, that it's too hard to connect or use everything, right? And there's too much complexity. So people want all of their devices to be connected but it has to change because your tech has to work better together. I think the work that the industry is doing around Matter, and Matter being the connective tissue between devices, will allow everyone to maybe innovate in a new way without just trying to build an ecosystem that only your brand operates in. And I don't think consumers want that. So if you put the consumer first you come up with things like Samsung SmartThings, right, which is, for lack of a better term, an open ecosystem. It definitely works better with Samsung devices or unlocks additional features when you connect to Samsung devices, but it works with many other brands as well, right?
Today's SmartThings on your screen will allow you to see the ingredients in your fridge, when your laundry's done, or who's on your door. And it's an open ecosystem just like our solar remote, right? We open that technology to anybody that wants to license it, right? We don't need to keep our hands so tight on everything. Our TVs pair seamlessly with Philips Hue light, Ring doorbell, and ... Right? And so much more than that. I think we'll see that continue to evolve. Certainly, at CES 2025 you can see a lot coming together around that.
What struck me about the future that you described was, a lot of these pieces are in place. But again, that seamless experience that you're describing, probably for most people, isn't in place yet because they just don't feel like it all aligns in the way that they want it to. So that being the real advancement here I think will resonate with a lot of folks. I want to go back to something that you said. You said the phrase Matter. I want to make sure we articulate what that is. That's the proper name for a set of standards or a standard for these things working together, right? That's what you mean by that?
Yeah. Across Wi-Fi, right, Bluetooth as the communication protocol. And we're part of the Matter consortium, right? And our devices are Matter enabled which, obviously, many brands are now part of that. And it really will allow, I think, that simplicity to now be introduced to what many people describe this as a complex problem.
And, of course, the Consumer Technology Association which owns and produces CES is an organization that tries to help companies come together and talk about these standards-
For the benefit of the industry. I do want to talk about how much AI you're thinking about putting into these devices themselves. When we talk about AI most people think about generative AI now. And we're starting to see companies just figuring out ways to integrate that into products and services. One question is, how much does that computation actually happen on the device, with chips or whatever, and how many things happen in the cloud? How are you thinking about that?
So you're right, there's, obviously, a lot of conversations going around around AI. I also think there's a lot of misunderstanding over AI, and there's confusion. For me, the first thing is, in the context of our Samsung AI TVs, on-device AI is the first and most important thing. And that's at the core of our TV innovations. We believe AI on-device is the way to go for ... Again, in the application of a TV, you sit back and relax, unmatched picture quality, immersive sound, premium features that really only Samsung could deliver. And with AI it just changes the game completely. Take AI upscaling as one example I guess. You're watching an old classic film or TV show ... I'm a big Godfather fan or ... Don't tell anyone, just between me and you, but also Little House on the Prairie.
Nothing to be ashamed of.
Good. Half Pint and I go back a long way.
But traditionally, right, it would look grainy, and maybe some people like that. But now it is just an amazing immersive experience. And AI, again, on-device is smart enough to upscale into 4K or even 8K, and the user doesn't have to do anything. I think relative to TV, you need to make sure your TV has AI, and AI on-device, and then it brings clarity to your content without you doing anything. AI Motion Enhancer is another one. That's a term and a feature we have on our TVs today. But think about a soccer ball. I don't know that you can notice, but you lose sight of the soccer ball or golf ball. And again, using on-device AI, now you can follow that ball or hockey puck anywhere it is on the screen. And when you see this demonstration side by side, it is clear you don't want to watch anything without AI Motion Enhancer.
One thing that people speculate about is a future where content is automatically generated to my exact taste. I'll sit down in front of the TV and say, "Make me a 1930s era, film noir, crime drama starring these particular people. And it has a plot twist about halfway through." And the generative AI at this point, again, we're saying 2030, is advanced enough that it just creates that entire movie. Never been seen before by anyone, was made specifically for me in that moment. And it knows exactly my taste because of everything else it already knows about me. Are you imagining or laying the technical groundwork for a future of something like that?
From my perspective, I don't know that I've thought of ... I know I haven't thought of it like that. I am going to make some popcorn though and come over to your house because I want to watch that same movie, it sounds great. I think maybe we get there. And, certainly, on apps and online, right, you could do some of that stuff today. Whether or not that becomes a new medium that everybody wants to watch. At least initially would deliver maybe a lackluster experience.
But today, AI could make recommendations for you, right, of traditional content, if you will. It can make recommendations where you want to watch it. Some of the things I think we'll see, and again as we lean into 2025 CES. Imagine you're watching a football game and it makes a recommendation on what food because it knows you're watching a football game so think tailgating menu or things like that. And maybe a food delivery service. Maybe AI recommends your local place that could deliver. I think some of the work that Lionsgate has talked about, as well, around AI will probably change the landscape as well. And I think that's maybe where you were going with that. It'll certainly change how we watch content, where we watch content, and certainly what we want.
You mentioned the picture clarity and being able to see things very clearly. How much better can screens realistically get? How close are we to the maximum of what the human eye can actually perceive? Is it an asymptotic experience where you can just get closer and closer but it's harder to get that last little bit, and it gets harder and harder? Does that even matter to people? Where are we with that?
It definitely matters to people. If you look at the top three reason people buy TVs, right? Bigger screen, better picture quality. And then number three can change depending on the type of purchase. I think we will never see a maximum where there's a finite enhancement to the experience. I think maybe picture quality where 8K ... Will there be 16K or something more? Absolutely. Our MICRO LED, right, if you read some of our releases on that, is infinite resolution. And there's a lot of debate over what that means. But I'm convinced, James, that we will never stop seeing innovation change the way we experience a display device. The type of device, the form factor, the shape, that will continue to evolve and we'll continue to innovate there. I think we're just scratching the surface, especially with AI, right? To your point now, now it becomes easier to customize and personalize. And today, the difference between 8K and 4K is almost like VHS to DVD, right? And again, when you see it side by side you realize the improvements that can be made from even a 4K, who many people now live and breathe every day.
I want to tie my next question to another episode of this very podcast which was about gaming. And, obviously, these games are showing up on the screens and the devices that Samsung is bringing into our homes. Where do you see the cutting-edge of technology as far as what you're able to offer gamers? What should gamers be excited about, let me say, with what Samsung is bringing to bear in 2024, 2025?
Love that question. I wouldn't call myself a hardcore gamer by any means but I love to game. And Before I say or I answer your question, I think, take just a step back, right? There's 190 million Americans that if you asked them they would say they're gamers or enjoyed video games. And 60% of the population games once a week at least for an hour. To me, that's mind-boggling. That's a lot of games being played. And then there's so many different kinds of gamers as you know: casual, hardcore, mid-core. And the solution is different, I think, depending on the type of gamer that you are, right? So Gaming Hub, you don't need a console anymore, right? Through lots of partnerships with Xbox, or Amazon Luna, or Antstream, and Blacknut, no console required, right on your Samsung big-screen TV. We call it Gaming Hub so everything related to gaming is in one spot. That's a great solution for many people. I'm a big fan of Mortal Kombat. Again, maybe dating myself. But now I could just go-
On my Samsung TV. Not dating myself?
No, that game is an eternal classic.
Oh, all right. Perfect, great.
We're agreeing a lot today, James.
But let's say you want more intense gameplay, right, so you want our flagship S95 OLED. And it has glare-free technology, right? So now you're in a dark room or light room and you don't have to worry about reflections interacting with your gameplay. And Samsung is one of the only ... The only TV brand to have our color validated by Pantone, the industry leading color expert. Again, I think, depending on the type of user, you want a total immersive gaming experience, bold contrast, vivid colors. And the S95 there does a great job. I think if you're maybe a hardcore gamer then you move to our monitor line, right? We're the number one gaming monitor brand. And we're the number one memory brand, right? Now it's not just display, right, but you want to build a gaming rig. Again, the total solution can really only be from Samsung these days. And that's something we're very proud about. And we can take our display credentials, if you will, and start applying them to many other types of technology.
You're naming a lot of products so this is a great chance to talk about CES 2025 where presumably people will see a lot of the products that you have and that you're working on. You are, obviously, at the very top of a list of brands that are going to show up at CES in a big way that people will certainly be expecting. A meta question. How do you think about CES every year? How do you approach that? What's your philosophy when you think about how you want to show up in Vegas?
I've been going to CES ... Forgive me, it's either 1999 or 2000 and I love it. I love it for a lot of reasons. We, as brands, get to show our latest and greatest, we get to tell a complete story. There's a lot of excitement there. Thanks to CTA, CES has evolved more maybe in the last couple of years than it has over maybe the last 20. John Deere, medical companies, Delta Air Lines are all brands that show up in a big way at CES. Since 1999 or 2000, I can't wait to ... My schedule at CES, when I get to go look at the rest of the floor, right? I spend a lot of time with customers, retailers, distributors, press, of course, technology, industry executives. But when I get to go and just walk the floor and see all the different things ... I get to see where culture is meeting technology. That often pops at CES. I get to see new ideas either for technology that we're leveraging, and somebody's applying it a little bit different, or new technology that I didn't even know existed.
Of course, I try to get into the back rooms of some of the brands that are out there just, again, to see maybe what's not ready for public viewing, right, but people want to share it with trusted technology advisors like Samsung. If you think about IFA, that just concluded, and some of the things we showed there, I think that maybe tips our hand a little bit. But that's just the beginning of what I think you can expect to see from Samsung at CES 2025.
And when you get a chance to walk that show floor and look at other technologies beyond the Samsung area, what are some of those other technologies? What's something on the frontier that you're really looking forward to seeing maybe how you can work with it, or bringing into what you're doing, or just excited about?
We have this phrase called Screens for All. As I personally think about that it means a lot to me. One is, of course, my job, and screens for everybody, and all of that. And all the tech and innovation we talked about. But I also think it really ties nicely to accessibility. And so personally, it's a passion of mine to make sure we're taking accessibility where it really should have always been but where it needs to go in the future. And I would challenge anybody listening to this podcast to reach out to me. If you're in the tech industry and you have an idea or you have a passion about making our technology accessible for everyone, let's do something together that changes the industry for sure but the world as well.
And I'll just cite a couple of examples. One is for folks with a sight impairment. We have a feature called Relumino Mode which allows folks with a sight impairment to look at a Samsung TV in a whole new way. We've brought in people with accessibility challenges, whether it's sight or hearing or other ... We bring them into the product planning process, right? What are the challenges? What are the opportunities? What would excite you? And not just like a focus group, right, but really part of the process. And I think we need to do more of that at Samsung for sure but I think as the industry at a whole.
Matt Ater at Vispero, I think is his company name, he once said to me, "ATMs have braille on them but not all blind people read braille," right? Yep, check the box these are ... ATMs are for people with a sight impairment but that's not enough, it doesn't address everything. And I would love to get to a place where all of our products are accessible to everybody. And it's not "Oh, you got to buy this one product," right, it's just standard, it shouldn't be something anybody has to think about. Whatever my disability or challenge is, this product works for me. And again, innovation for all or screens for all I think is the beginning of that.
When you were going through this process of building in more accessibility, do you find feature upgrades then that folks use who might not have identified with needing those features before they existed, but then once they exist, and they exist for other reasons, for people who really do need them, then a lot of other people like those features too?
Absolutely. Closed captioning is a great example there where sometimes it shows up on top of something you want or on the ticker on the bottom of a channel. Again, AI plays a role there. And that feature that we I think announced ... I forgot if it was last year or this year. That feature people can't talk enough about, right? Or easy pairing of headphones to your TV without having to go into a menu and click Bluetooth, right? You open up your charging cradle, it recognizes the device. And again, that technology, although driven out of headphones and TVs, right, is now showing up with hearing aids. And again, something maybe not originally thought of in the design process but clearly an innovation that pays dividends.
And the closed caption thing that you mentioned is the ability to put the words in a less obtrusive place in certain contexts. Is that what you mean by that?
Yeah, yeah. And move around the screen depending on ... Again, AI knows now what's on the screen, let me find a place that's unused on the screen and move close captioning there.
Everything I see on social media needs to be able to play on mute, as I'm scrolling through it, so everyone just puts captions on their videos. It seems like that's a no-brainer. One thing as we're talking about form factor here and the way that these screens actually look, you mentioned transparent screens. If I go into the house in the future is that the majority of what I'm going to see? Are we going to see transparent screens in certain select use cases? Will I still recognize most screens when I see them? How should we be thinking about how these things look, especially when they're not being used as screens?
CES 2024, I was on stage and talked about transparent micro LED. We announced it at CES 2024 for the first time in the world. No other brand has done anything like that. I think the possibilities are really endless in the applications. So sure, conventional TV no longer needs to be a black box on your wall, right, and just see through whatever is on the wall behind it, the color or the painting, or whatever it may be. I think as we think outside of conventional TVs ... Imagine you're at a baseball game, and you're sitting in a box, and on the glass there you can see the stats of the game that you're watching while you're watching the game. You wake up and you look outside, yes, you can see what the weather is through your window but now you can have all of the weather forecast overlaid on your screen which is your window to the outside, right? So there's a ton of applications there. It's about blending seamlessly into whatever configuration or size, and you're getting crystal clear picture quality which, of course, is what we strive for here.
Well, James Fishler of Samsung, thank you so much for helping us see through your window into the future. Really appreciate you joining us today.
James, thanks so much it was a ton of fun.
Well, that's our show for now but there's always more tech to talk about. So if you're on YouTube please subscribe and leave a comment. If you're listening on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, iHeartMedia, or wherever you get your podcasts, please hit that follow button, let's give the algorithms what they want. You can get even more CES and prepare for Vegas at CES.tech. That's CES.T-E-C-H. Our show is produced by Nicole Vidovich and Paige Morris, recorded by Andrew Linn, and edited by Third Spoon. I'm James Kotecki talking tech on CES Tech talk.
