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• Transcript

  James Kotecki (00:07): 

  This is CES Tech Talk. I'm James Kotecki, bringing you one of the many conversations I recorded live at CES 2025 in the C Space Studio. You can find all our C Space Studio interviews on the CES YouTube channel, but we've selected this one especially to bring directly to your podcast feed. Enjoy. 

  (00:28): 

  Welcome back to the C Space Studio here at CES 2025. I am James Kotecki and I'm very excited about our next conversation with Dan Reed, COO of Reality Labs at Meta. Thanks for joining us. 

  Dan Reed (00:41): 

  Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. 

  James Kotecki (00:42): 

  Okay, so Reality Labs, the metaverse, VR, what's going on with Reality Labs and Meta's work in the metaverse right now in general? Just give us a level set first. 

  Dan Reed (00:51): 

  Sure. It's a really, really exciting time for us. So this is literally what we changed the name of the company for, to Meta, and we believe that the work we're doing are the next computing platforms where virtual reality, which is turning into mixed reality, some people refer to it as spatial computing, is really making this transition to a general computing platform that we think over time will be more effective than laptops or computers and glasses. 

  (01:19): 

  AI glasses now, like I'm wearing now, will turn into AR glasses, which we think are the next mobile computing platform. And we're really seeing great traction in both of those businesses as well as the Metaverse, which is the software layer, the experience layer throughout all of it. And really AI, the growth of AI over the last year or two has really transformed this business where AI is a critical part of our vision here, and so it's a very exciting time for us. 

  James Kotecki (01:45): 

  Thanks for letting me try on the glasses before we started rolling here. 

  Dan Reed (01:46): 

  Yeah. Of course. 

  James Kotecki (01:47): 

  Can you explain to folks just the basic components of what you're wearing right now? 

  Dan Reed (01:50): 

  Sure. So these are the Ray-Ban Meta smart glasses, and really, they're transitioning to be AI glasses. So they have cameras in here, so they take photo, they take video. They have speakers in the temples here, so you listen to podcasts, listen to music, take calls. 

  (02:08): 

  But the really exciting thing is the AI in the glasses where it's not just a chatbot, an assistant, which is of course useful, but that's something you can do on the phone. The AI in the glasses is really exciting because the AI can see what you see, can hear what you hear, it can speak to you privately. So it unlocks these amazing capabilities which I'm sure we'll get to in a bit. 

  James Kotecki (02:28): 

  I imagine the future not too far off where I'm wearing a set of those glasses too and I get hints about what to ask my guests, and they probably get hints about the answers, whether that's from the AI or their PR teams behind the scenes. 

  Dan Reed (02:39): 

  Yeah. 

  James Kotecki (02:40): 

  You can imagine a lot of interesting context for that. But I'm curious about the AI component that you mentioned, so the way that AI is kind of driving this forward. 

  (02:47): 

  And so I think, I can't remember when the exact name change was, but I know that in conversations of the past here in the C Space studio, we've talked about the metaverse, we talked about VR, and AI has kind of continued to rise up as a really prominent trend. So now when we add the latest version of AI and generative AI into the mix for the AR-VR augmented reality conversation, how does that change the game? 

  Dan Reed (03:08): 

  It changes the game because it really unlocks... We talk about augmented abilities in this form factor, because like I described, when the AI can understand your surroundings and speak to you privately while you're on the go without having to pull out your phone, it unlocks amazing things. 

  (03:26): 

  So one example is live translation. So you can be talking to me in Spanish, I don't understand Spanish as I don't speak Spanish, but it will translate it live in my ear. And as screens come online, it will translate it on a screen. 

  James Kotecki (03:44): 

  Yeah. 

  Dan Reed (03:45): 

  It will give you reminders. So you often forget where you parked your car, it reminds you where you parked your car and then bring it back. 

  (03:53): 

  Live AI is a capability where in real time while you're doing things, the AI can assist you based on what you're seeing. So this is just the tip of the iceberg. You can imagine a lot more capabilities that will be coming, like you described, where it's anticipatory, where it can understand the situation and just give you a little help. So it's really transformed it. 

  James Kotecki (04:14): 

  And how much of an overlay, now or in the future, will the glasses be able to put on the reality that I'm seeing? Will it be extremely augmented or just partially or could I black out everything and just go into my own virtual world? 

  Dan Reed (04:27): 

  Yeah. Well, I think that's the continuum of mixed reality to eventually AR glasses where mixed reality is, it's a screen, but it passes through. So the full screen, you can go full virtual, but you can also do pass through so you can see the world around you. 

  (04:48): 

  And there will be a range within the glasses category where these have no display. Over time there'll be glasses with display. And there's slightly different use cases depending on what you're using it for. So I think there'll be a type of device for any use case in any type of situation. 

  James Kotecki (05:06): 

  Do you think it'll change society or social conventions around the expectations of what the other person is able to hear and see when they're wearing these devices? I know because you told me I have cameras in these and I can hear things in these that you might not be able to hear. Does it change social interactions? 

  Dan Reed (05:23): 

  It's hard to say. I mean, we're in the very early stages of this. What we talk about as bystander signaling is very important to us. So for example, when you take a picture, you see a pretty bright flash. 

  James Kotecki (05:35): 

  Okay. Yeah. 

  Dan Reed (05:37): 

  If you're taking a video, it pulses. And I think there'll be a lot of these norms that emerge over time, to your point, because these glasses do give you entirely new capabilities that are very exciting. Eliminating the barrier of language when you're traveling is pretty amazing, right? That's obviously something that as this technology gets better will change. And I do think there'll be a bunch of those things, but it's kind of early to predict exactly what those will be. 

  James Kotecki (06:05): 

  Yeah. And there's so many more accessibility elements to this that could be extreme benefits to this for people who need assistance in different ways, there's an obvious. 

  Dan Reed (06:14): 

  That's exactly right. No, we're seeing this now, and this is really important to us as a company. We have nearly 4 billion people on our apps, and these literally go on your face. So making sure that it works for every type of person really matters. 

  (06:26): 

  So we have a inclusive product council where every product goes through this where we understand how it works for a wide range of people. We co-design with diverse communities, with disabled communities, and there's some examples. We have a partnership with Be My Eyes on these, which helps blind and low-sighted people understand what's in front of them. And so you can do that now with the glasses hands-free. 

  James Kotecki (06:50): 

  Of course. Okay. So it sees where you're looking and it can tell you what's there? 

  Dan Reed (06:52): 

  It tells you what's happening. 

  James Kotecki (06:54): 

  Wow. 

  Dan Reed (06:54): 

  That's right. 

  James Kotecki (06:54): 

  Okay. 

  Dan Reed (06:55): 

  That's an example. 

  James Kotecki (06:57): 

  You've had a substantial career at Meta, and before that, you had a fairly substantial career at the NBA. 

  Dan Reed (07:01): 

  Yeah, that's right. 

  James Kotecki (07:02): 

  What have you learned in both of those careers about listening to audiences? 

  Dan Reed (07:07): 

  Listening to audiences. I mean, look, these are both consumer brands, consumer businesses, and so understanding your audience is critical. It just is. 

  (07:17): 

  And it's funny, the transition we're making in Reality Labs is instructive here because Reality Labs historically has been effectively an R&D department. We are inventing this technology. These things just don't exist in the world. And now we're transitioning to, okay, we need to get very customer-focused in terms of different customer segments, different use cases, because now as we're scaling this business and we're looking to sell millions and hundreds of millions of these devices. 

  (07:43): 

  So we're moving into that phase now, and obviously at the NBA, this is critical to understand who your fans are, whether it's ticket sales or sponsorships or the product on the floor. 

  James Kotecki (07:55): 

  Yeah. I think a casual observer of this space might've thought, "Oh, VR was hot, and then it seemed to have diminished a little bit." And what it seems like, from what I'm understanding from you and maybe other conversations is no, it's kind of gone and it's kind of continued to evolve, and now a lot of the focus is on the utility and actually useful things. 

  (08:14): 

  We haven't talked as much in this conversation. I mean, before when you had me put the glasses on, I told the AI to tell me a joke, which it did, and it was very funny. So there are still fun things you can do with it. But I'm just curious about right now, is this where the focus of the industry and where Meta's focus is, more on the utility side versus the, quote unquote, fun side? Or where does the fun side kind of fit into it for you? 

  Dan Reed (08:34): 

  It's all of the above. 

  James Kotecki (08:35): 

  Yeah. 

  Dan Reed (08:35): 

  We're human beings, so we want to do things and we want to unlock capabilities for ourselves and improve productivity or whatever, but we're human beings. We like to have fun. We want to socialize. It should make your life better on all fronts. So in mixed reality, these things tend to go in hype cycles, right? 

  James Kotecki (08:53): 

  Yeah. That's what I'm getting at, yeah. 

  Dan Reed (08:53): 

  There's a big hype cycle around VR, and then if you're not paying close attention, it sort of dies down, but the reality of that business continues to grow. And what's interesting is it's making this transition from gaming, which has been the first major use case in VR, which you understand why, gaming immersively is amazing, and now it's making this transition into entertainment, into fitness, into learning and education, into productivity, and it's sort of over time, again, that's the path of becoming a general compute platform. 

  (09:26): 

  And that's happening. We're seeing growth in all those areas. But if you're not in the space, it's admittedly under the radar, but we're seeing the growth. And the AI glasses to AR glasses transition is the same thing. Now we've invented the technology, we have product market fit for this product, and now it's about how do we make them useful? How do we help people become aware of it? How do we tell the story of how effective they are? 

  James Kotecki (09:47): 

  I heard a similar argument in the C Space Studio this year on the blockchain too, which people might have thought is a similar kind of thing, but the person who was sitting where you're sitting was like, "No, actually this is really useful and it's really pervasive, but just people aren't thinking about it as much." 

  Dan Reed (09:58): 

  That's right. 

  James Kotecki (09:59): 

  So the hype cycle is really more about what maybe people are paying attention to at the moment versus what's actually being useful. 

  Dan Reed (10:03): 

  That's right. 

  James Kotecki (10:06): 

  Virtual reality, augmented reality is so much woven into the fabric of science fiction in movies. Is there a piece of science fiction that especially inspires you as you think about what you're building and where you think this is going? 

  Dan Reed (10:17): 

  I mean, let's start with metaverse was inspired by the book Metaverse, right? Or Snow Crash. 

  James Kotecki (10:26): 

  Snow Crash. Yeah. 

  Dan Reed (10:26): 

  Right. Snow Crash. And so I think we get inspiration from a variety of different books and movies. 

  (10:36): 

  But at this point now, we are sort of trying to create our own science fiction in many ways. We just announced last fall what we think are the most advanced AR glasses in the world. We call them Orion. And these are the things that you see in the movies, in like Iron Man where Tony Stark has the AR glasses where you have wide field a few displays, holographic displays, you can watch a movie, you can have multiple screens, you can talk to a virtually embodied person, and it has all the same capabilities that these do. 

  (11:09): 

  And so every movie that you've seen that has those AR glasses and all the capabilities they have, that is really inspiring and we're building it. I've seen it. I've tried it. It's pretty cool. 

  James Kotecki (11:21): 

  I love that quote, "We are creating our own science fiction now." Put that up on a poster. Dan Reed- 

  Dan Reed (11:25): 

  Yeah, there you go. Cool. 

  James Kotecki (11:26): 

  Dan Reed, Reality Labs at Meta, thanks so much for joining us. 

  Dan Reed (11:29): 

  Thanks so much for having me. 

  James Kotecki (11:30): 

  And we really appreciate you watching us. This is the C Space Studio here at CES 2025. Don't go anywhere, because more great conversations with thought leaders are just ahead. My name is James Kotecki. Keep it here. 

  (11:42): 

  Well, I hope you enjoyed that conversation from CES 2025. That is our show for now, but there's always more tech to talk about. So if you're on YouTube, please subscribe and leave a comment. If you're listening on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, iHeartMedia, or wherever you get your podcasts, hit that follow button and let's give the algorithms what they want. 

  (12:00): 

  You can get even more CES at ces.tech. That's C-E-S dot T-E-C-H. Our show produced by Nicole Vidovich and Paige Morris. Our C Space Studio episodes are produced and edited by Cramer. I'm James Kotecki, talking tech on CES Tech Talk.